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We Don't Need This-Plane into Building in Austin, TX

Posted By:
Paul Dowgewicz
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
149
Posts
43
#1 Posted: 2/18/2010 11:07:01 Modified: 2/18/2010 20:09:21

Link 

A small plane is reported to have crashed into a building in Austin at about 10 AM CST.

Not good publicity for us again.

I certainly hope that there weren't many, if any, ground injuries

Watching online stream. It looks like the fire is subdued, but earlier video shows a very intense fire. Reports saying 2 people unaccounted for.

Edit:

This one's getting stranger. Reports say that the person they believe piloted the plane left a suicide note on a web site he ran. This morning he set his house on fire, where his family escaped unharmed. An IRS criminal investigation unit was in that building. However, as a friend of mine mentioned, these days it's pretty difficult to find a building that doesn't have government employees in it.

 

More Editing:

I saw more video when the fire was at its peak. That was quite a large fire. I would have thought that even with the aviation gas and flammable office furnishings and paper, the building's sprinkler system would have contained it better.

100LL has 112,000 BTU/gal. A cubic foot of water will absorb 60,547 BTUs when it changes state from liquid to gas (The internet knows everything.) So with perfect dispersal to put out the fire, for 40 gals. it would take about 80 cu. ft. of water, or about about 600 gallons, depending on whether you have gallon or cubic foot containers. Since a sprinkler head puts out about 25 GPM each, it would take 24 sprinkler head minutes to put out the fuel fire if they were dispersing the water exactly where needed. I never studied fire theory, so maybe the number is high since you only need to reduce the heat below the flash temperature point. This number would bring the fuel back to room temperature. Of course the sprinkler isn't smart enough to know exactly where to point the water.

 

 



Jason Wodack
42
Posts
22
#2 Posted: 2/18/2010 13:24:58

I agree, no good at all.

It looks like the number of unaccounted for is now down to one, and only two injured. 



Rick Nordgarden
Homebuilder or Craftsman
13
Posts
6
#3 Posted: 2/18/2010 14:09:48

 

The Smoking Gun has posted the six-page manifesto put online by Mr. Stack just before his suicidal attack. It appears that he was a long-time tax protestor and failed businessman with a tendency to blame others, and especially the U.S. government, for his troubles. News sources are also reporting that his wife left him last night and took the children. The manifesto is dated today.

I expect a push from politicians for more restrictions on GA and its airports; I wouldn't be suprised if there's significant popular support for such measures. I hope reason will prevail but when politicians smell votes...



Dan DeVillers
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
21
Posts
9
#4 Posted: 2/18/2010 15:58:16
Paul Dowgewicz wrote:

 

Link 

A small plane is reported to have crashed into a building in Austin at about 10 AM CST.

Not good publicity for us again.

I certainly hope that there weren't many, if any, ground injuries

Watching online stream. It looks like the fire is subdued, but earlier video shows a very intense fire. Reports saying 2 people unaccounted for.

Edit:

This one's getting stranger. Reports say that the person they believe piloted the plane left a suicide note on a web site he ran. This morning he set his house on fire, where his family escaped unharmed. An IRS criminal investigation unit was in that building. However, as a friend of mine mentioned, these days it's pretty difficult to find a building that doesn't have government employees in it.

 

This is a real shame. I wonder what airport security he went through to get to his plane? Will probably prove that the freedom restrictions against us normal folks is as ineffective as always. Apparently many knew about his views and positions. Good police work and surveillance beat broad stroke restrictions every time...

 

 

 



DanD Blueskies
Jason Wodack
42
Posts
22
#5 Posted: 2/18/2010 19:40:47

It's already happened.  By 4:00 Rep. Lloyd Dogett was stading on the scene offering up the entire GA community and mis quoting the facts. 



Jim Heffelfinger
Homebuilder or Craftsman
256
Posts
43
#6 Posted: 2/19/2010 15:12:58

 

Being home sick and really bored this story caught my interest. (BTW- pretty low key coverage here in Sacramento – We have the Palo Alto crash in the news)

Based on accounts, the way the plane came in,  and the possible mind set of the pilot here is my take.

His intention was to leave a “blood stain” on the front porch of the IRS.

The aircraft hit below ground level along the retaining wall. His intention was not to create body counts.  Had he wanted to his pathway and trajectory would have set him in to the 2-3rd floor levels penetrating well into the building and creating maximum damage.

Statement suicide – scared/scorched concrete

Domestic terror – high body counts.

Just my take on a sad person with mental health issues.    BTW- had he been under treatment his medications would have denied a medical and not be able to fly. But then he would have used the family SUV instead.

 



Pierre D'Entremont
Homebuilder or Craftsman
131
Posts
37
#7 Posted: 2/19/2010 20:53:27

As Belenco say's ..." Conflict of intelligence !!! "  

Looking at the cross country thread ... and the beauty...  inspiring...worth living for ...the veiw ...priceless

This thread ...pathetic...desparate...beguiling...calculating

EAA ...responsable in character...involved in educating and developing  personal self worth and joy...

to be loved you have to be loveable ... to get through this ...we need to communicate effectivly ...and be nice about it...these are poor souls who don't know how much fun we have and how miserable they are , and want to make us ...





Tooky or Pierre
Adam Smith
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
538
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381
#8 Posted: 2/19/2010 21:17:56 Modified: 2/20/2010 13:36:16

We received this by email earlier in the day... I will leave readers to form their own opinions on the contents!

 

From: Allen Media Strategies [mailto:cristi@allenmediastrategies.ccsend.com] On Behalf Of Allen Media Strategies
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: COMMERCIAL AIRLINE PILOT, STRESS EXPERT ON AUSTIN FLIGHT TRAGEDY

 

To book this guest contact Aaron at       703-589-8960 or aaron@allenmediastrategies.com

 

A small plane was intentionally crashed Thursday into an office building in Austin that houses IRS offices, igniting a huge fire that spewed thick black smoke into the sky and injuring at least two people.  It rattled the nerves of the country, although there was apparently no foreign terrorist threat involved.

 The pilot, Joseph Andrew Stack, left a rambling suicide note on a Web site talking about a "storm raging in my head" and said that "desperate times call for desperate measures."  The 3,200 word self-described "rant" appeared to be mostly about his run-ins with the IRS and his tax accountant.  It ended with "Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well." The posting, dated Thursday, was signed: "Joe Stack (1956-2010)."

 30 year veteran commercial pilot DJ Frost specializes in relieving a variety of stresses related to flying with his hypnotherapy background via his website www.PilotDJFrost.com.   "Most of the time, we work with passengers who experience anxiety while flying, but clearly this individual was under a tremendous amount of stress while in the cockpit", says Frost.  "And, it should never have been allowed to happen."

 Talk with this frequent media guest (FOX NEWS, JIM BOHANNON, G. GORDON LIDDY, AMERICA TONIGHT, WLW, etc) about:

 -What sorts of safeguards he believes should be in place to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future

-The Piper Cherokee aircraft, with a fuel capacity of 72 pounds, which caused the massive explosion to the IRS building

-Why the general aviation community needs a thorough security overhaul to prevent this sort of thing from happening

-The differences between commercial and general aviation safety procedures which would shock most Americans

 

Book Pilot DJ Frost NOW by contacting Allen Media Strategies Aaron Leistner at (703) 589-8960 or aaron@allenmediastrategies.com

 

 



Hal Bryan
827
Posts
501
#9 Posted: 2/20/2010 13:42:37 Modified: 2/20/2010 13:44:07

There's so much to say about this, but I'll be polite and only allow myself to point out one thing:

A Piper Cherokee with a fuel capacity of ... 72 pounds?!? That's 12 gallons ...

I'm sure the International Hypnopilot meant 72 gallons, but really ... when you declare yourself an expert on something, you oughta proofread the declaration.

 

 



Online Community Manager - EAA
Alice Cornwell
65
Posts
29
#10 Posted: 2/20/2010 14:03:45

30 pieces of silver come to mind.



Bob Seevers
50
Posts
10
#11 Posted: 2/20/2010 14:09:42
Hal Bryan wrote:

 

There's so much to say about this, but I'll be polite and only allow myself to point out one thing:

A Piper Cherokee with a fuel capacity of ... 72 pounds?!? That's 12 gallons ...

I'm sure the International Hypnopilot meant 72 gallons, but really ... when you declare yourself an expert on something, you oughta proofread the declaration.

 

 

 

+1, ain't too many experts of anything on the tv to begin with.



Pierre D'Entremont
Homebuilder or Craftsman
131
Posts
37
#12 Posted: 2/20/2010 22:53:32

They woulda REALLY freaked out if it was a Cri Cri !!!



Tooky or Pierre
Jim Heffelfinger
Homebuilder or Craftsman
256
Posts
43
#13 Posted: 2/21/2010 17:06:40

DJ Frost - 30 years as a commercial pilot.  Does he currently fly GA?    I suggest he does not.  If so his media relations guy would not be trying so hard to cash in on things.  His client would be a victom of his own suggestions.

IMHO - There are no safeguards, short of grounding all GA, that could avoid/prevent such an act.   If grounded Mr. Stack would have used the family SUV loaded with fuel to accompolish the same thing.  With the same message.

The IRS was threatening at taking away has house and plane - he took the scorched earth pathway. 

Commercial air so immune?    EgyptAir 990      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

AirCanada flight - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/19/flight-attendant-helps-la_n_145087.html

Mr. Frost's publisists would be better served chasing down road rage accidents.  I will be polite only this once.

 



Christopher Carlson
IAC MemberHomebuilder or Craftsman
81
Posts
21
#14 Posted: 2/24/2010 23:41:58

3 Things I harp on to the non-flying public:

A: This was HIS airplane! He did not steal the plane...he has been allowed to fly it for years WITHOUT anyone calling into question why he was going flying. He snapped. His mission changed. Not GA's fault. A thousand + GA pilots took off that same day and managed not to kill anyone.

2: This proves the GA airplane is a crappy weapon for terrorism. This airplane went into an un-protected building (full glass exterior) and an open floor plan full of fuel and intent and suceeded in killing ONE other person (which is one too many but for point of conjecture...). So, as a tool of terror you have a 1:1 kill ratio. For a group trying to instill terror...FAIL!

C: You cannot plan enough response senerios against a determined attack by a determined foe who is willing to give his life up to kill as many of his enemies he/she can.  I wish TSA would learn this...(vain hope)

 

                                                                                        Chris in SHV

 



Ken Anders
2
Posts
0
#15 Posted: 2/27/2010 22:23:53

All of you are right with your reply's.  A politician on the news made a good statement about the Austin crash. 

A crazy man with a gun could have killed 10 times that many people, so don't blame GA pilots for this guys mental problems.  We have enought goverment problems now.  I might add, just for the record,  that I think all people should be able to keep guns for their protection.  Guns don't kill people.........People kill people !

                              Ken in Ash. NC 



Kenneth E. Anders
Paul Dowgewicz
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
149
Posts
43
#16 Posted: 2/28/2010 07:50:50

When these politicians start ranting for more restrictions, bring up the line in Stark's statement where he says:

"I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are."

They're then playing right into his hand. Enabling exactly what he wanted. Enacting more restrictions means they agree with Stark.

Then watch the stammering begin!