Motorglider Rating?

Robert, you are catching on fast. Many designs are too heavy/too fast to make the LSA cut. Many like the Europa can be built with both long and short wings and be called a motor glider. Medical certification is the same as SP.  A few advantages of gliders are:

No altitude restrictions.                                                                                                                                                                                     

Most have removable wings and can be stored in its trailer.

Higher gross weight is allowed.

If there is a outright prohibition against night flight, I haven't found it yet. Haven't bothered to look for it.

Gliders can be soloed by 14 year old kids.

Real easy to get as an add on rating. Counts as a BFR.

Great safety record.

Low gas bills.

Gliders are more aerodynamicaly refined resulting in more efficiency.

You can have retractable wheels and an in flight adjustable propeller.

You can do as many dead stick landings as you please without explaining it to the FAA.

Expect to do spins early in your check out.

Bob

Interesting....

From what I have read today...there are basically NO restrictions. (Even IMC if the "glider" is equipped)?? ...something seems 'off' with that.

 
So if one were to find a 2 seater experimental with a GW of 1500lbs, low stall speed, and a decent glide ratio... equip it with slightly longer wings and register it as a glider....you could essentially have an aircraft with a higher gross weight with no medical, night, or altitude restrictions. Are there any additional requirements to being able to fly into Class D, C, B or will the standard PPL or SP endorsements work?

Not saying I would actually do this...it just seems interesting that it is possible. I believe many of the SLSAs out there are in fact motogliders in Europe and are capable of much higher GW than is allowed as delivered to the States and are often structurally capable of higher speeds. Would be nice to be able to get the full potential out of  some of these aircraft.

As a side, I wish that the FAA would have just gone with the Sea Plane weight as the Max GW. Seems silly to me to say .."You can't fly over 1320lbs unless you are flying a Sea plane..then you can go to 1430 lbs". Why not just make it all 1430??

..Again I digress....Love the SP rating though. Just wish it could be tweaked just a tad.

A couple items from the FAA website:

(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider.

The FAA is revising §61.311 (c), and limiting sport pilot operations at all times to below 10,000 feet MSL. The FAA believes that this revision will simplify the altitude restrictions and increase the level of safety.

There is a weight limit for motorgliders.  There's an equation something like the square of the wingspan divided by the weight can't exceed some number.  I don't remember it off the top of my head and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.  I think there was also an absolute max weight of 1,750 pounds.  I think this information was on the Sonex website at one time.  I saw a reference to a max VNE of 120 knots in another post, but that must be for light sport gliders.  My SZD-59 had a redline of 154 knots with the short wing.

I also find it interesting that you can fly a motorglider that weights 1,750 pounds, at night, above 10,000, without even a driver's license for proof of medical compliance. 

When I was in the process of getting my Challenger II LW registered as as Experimental Moterglider, one of the arguments that I used to counter the wingspan/weight requirement, is that it does not include experimentals.  i.e. The US space shuttle I found is registered as an Experimental Motorglider and it sure dosen't need those requirements.. 

My question is as a does a rated SEL, MEL pilot with 4K plus hours need to have a motor glider rating or is a glider rating surficent.

Sorry about the large photo in my previous post,  I was trying to change my profile picture and goofed.

Don,

There really is no such thing as a motor glider rating. You simply need a glider ticket with a self launch endorsement. I believe the endorsement is simply a log book entry from a CFI-G.

Later!!

Andy

Andy is correct, a pilot will hold a glider rating and will be endorsed by a glider instructor for various launch types, which include air launch (i.e., being towed by a towplane), ground launch (with a winch or towed by a ground vehicle) and "self launch" which means the glider has its own power source.

The FAA does not use the term "motorglider" in any regulation or policy.  Aircraft certificated as gliders may or may not be powered, but in order to take advantage of the relative freedom of glider operations the aircraft must be certificated as a "glider".

Gliders that have an engine installed, which are commonly referred to as "motorgliders" are actually considered to be "powered gliders" by the FAA.  And in order to be certificated as a "powered glider" the aircraft must meet the following criteria:

The number of occupants cannot exceed two, the maximum weight cannot exceed 850 kg (1874 pounds), and the maximum weight to wing span squared (w/b2)  cannot exceed 3.0 kg/M2 (0.62 lb./ft.2).

This definition was adopted by the FAA from the European JAR 22.  This applies to experimental certifications as well, so in order for a homebuilt or exhibition aircraft to be certificated as a powered glider it will have to meet these criteria as well.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

Joe

Right you are Andy. The launch method is a logbook endorsement. But, it  does show up on your ticket. Most these days have aerotow. My first dual launch was an auto tow behind a non road worthy buick. Requires a "CG hitch" on the belly. A few years ago, I watched them doing bungee launches at the Wasserkuppe.  When I got my comm-G, there was no such thing as CFI-G.

I have been flying my motorglider for 14 years now. It is very low cost to operate. I really like the combination of being able to soar with the engine off and if needed use it to cruise like an airplane. I like the concept so much that I am building a new one, which I hope to complete this year. If anyone is interested in buying a motorglider, my current one will be for sale soon (SF28A).

sonja.englert@juno.com

Thanks for all the responses!  Never really thought about going the powered glider route when I was working on my Sport Pilot rating. I am still a relatively new pilot (about 65 hours in a SportCruiser -now the PiperSport). I am starting to get the itch to buy or build. Most of the LSAs (new) on the market run in the 100K+ range (which is a good deal relative to the traditional manufacturers....however is NOT a good deal for my personal wallet

A BC12D is what we have primarily been looking at (something that I can fly for a few years from the go...and then potentially re-build to suit after putting some hours on it). The Powered glider route might be a good option though that I have never really considered. I like the fact that there is no artificially  imposed altitude/ speed restriction and there is a higher weight allowance.

Any pointers on aircraft that are currently certified as powered gliders (or I guess..self launch gliders) or experimental self launch gliders in the states. Most gliders that I see are in the European market or are completely un-powered. 

 Again thanks for the responses! Very helpful thread!

Robert

Here's the link to the Sonex page with the motorglider definition.

 http://www.sonexaircraft.com/aircraft/motorgliderdefinition.html