Hangar Talk

TFRs - Value of People

Posted By:

Paul Dowgewicz

149
Posts

#1 Posted: 1/24/2011 13:08:09

Since we have 30 mile radius security zones around the President,

and 3 mile zones around the Vice-president,

Someone had to come up with the required knee-jerk reaction to the Tuscon shooting. So Rep Peter King, a Republican from New York, is planning to introduce legislation that would make it illegal to bring a gun within 1,000 feet of a government official, according to a person familiar with the congressman’s intentions. Reference

So the President gets 30^2 * 3.14 = 2826 sq. mi.
Vice President gets 3^2 * 3.14 = 28.26 sq. mi.
Representatives would get (1000/5280)^2 * 3.14 = 0.11 sq. mi.

That puts the value of a vice president at 1/100 the value of a president,

and a representative is worth 1/252 the value of a vice president.

To have a 3 mile security zone around citizens, you need a gathering of at least 30,000 people. That would be 28.26 sq. mi /30,000 = 0.000942 sq. mi. / person.

So according to government security regulations, that makes the value of the citizens equal to 1/116 the value of a representative.

Timothy O'Connor

82
Posts

#2 Posted: 1/24/2011 17:56:35

The IRONY of TFRs is really a good example of policy stupidy.

What is the one kind of non-military aircraft that have been used as a weapon? Commerical Jet Liners.

What is the only kind of aircraft allowed to fly through a TFR? Commerical Jet Liners.

What do the terrorist want to do? Destroy Freedom and show fault with western society/goverment.

What did the terrorists get when we enacted TFRs/TSA? They destroyed part of our freedom and showed how screwed up our society and government is.

Sad.

"Rotors, the only way to FLY" Commercial Rotorcraft Pilot, CFI, AGI, SP-FW

Rudolph Bescherer

5
Posts

#3 Posted: 1/27/2011 20:33:58 Modified: 1/27/2011 20:35:52

Paul Dowgewicz wrote:

That puts the value of a vice president at 1/100 the value of a president,

and a representative is worth 1/252 the value of a vice president.

So according to government security regulations, that makes the value of the citizens equal to 1/116 the value of a representative.

Playing devil's advocate here, the population of the country is 307 million (July 2009 numbers).

(numbers below corrected)

Stadium TFR for 30k persons = 3 nm = 0.000942 sq. nautical miles per person

There are 435 in the Congress and 100 in the Senate = 535 persons representing 307 million = 574,000 (approx) persons represented by each. 573,832 persons * 0.000942 sq NM per person = 540.8 sq NM. SQRT (540.8/ Pi) = 13.1 NM radius TFR.

There are 2 in the Executive branch (VP + President) to represent 307 million = 153.5 million persons represented each. 153.5 million * 0.000942 sq NM per person = 144,670 sq NM = 214.6 NM TFR.

There is only one President, so twice the area of the VP TFR is 289,340 sq NM = 303.5 NM TFR.

Let's just agree, from the perspective of reality, that general aviation is no real threat to the security of the country. As demonstrated by the person who flew into the IRS building in Texas, even a typical GA aircraft fully loaded with fuel and intent on crashing into a building does not do much damage.

William Campbell

68
Posts

#4 Posted: 1/27/2011 21:51:55

The scary part of this is the definition of "government official", the answer is not as obivous as it might seem. And I agree with the comment on the pointlessness of the TFRs. Many years ago I had a conversation with a person at an aviation seminar, who was friends with the (then) new commander of the Washington SFRA/FRZ. I asked how long he thought it would be before we got back to normal. His reply was chilling, he said we will never go back. "We" have the airspace now and "we" will never give up control. (This is paraphrased but accurate in substance).

Paul Dowgewicz

149
Posts

#5 Posted: 1/28/2011 08:45:55

William Campbell wrote:

...the (then) new commander of the Washington SFRA/FRZ. (was) asked how long he thought it would be before we got back to normal. His reply was chilling, he said we will never go back. "We" have the airspace now and "we" will never give up control. (This is paraphrased but accurate in substance).

As with everything in government, the answer is "Follow the money". This isn't about security, it's about power. And more power transforms into more money. When a bureaucrat controls more money, that justifies a higher salary for them.

Stadium and Disney TFRs are only there to keep out banner towers because Disney/NCAA/NASCAR/MLB/NFL paid good money to have the air space above them turned into private property. If it was really about security, all those facilities would have automatic anti-aircraft guns installed there, because that's the only way to stop a plane from 3 miles out.

(They don't, do they?)

David Davies

1
Post

#6 Posted: 1/28/2011 08:49:51

Power tends to Corrupt!

Corruption seaks Power!

Is our government really protecting the rights of the average citizen any more? I think our government is more tuned to protecting it's power and control over us than protecting the rights of the average American.

Think about how our government works today compared to years ago and visualize where we will be in 10, 20, 40+ years from now.