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NEED HELP

Posted By:
Chris Aerts
30
Posts
4
#1 Posted: 3/30/2011 08:20:36

I'm saving for my first homebuilt. My home landing strip was denied because I live in a area with to many homes in my flight path to land. I got over being ****ed about that so I went to area airports to price renting a hanger. I found out how cheep it is to be at the airport instead of owning my own strip and hanger. So thats all good now.    Here is what I need help with. I'm looking at a zenith stol 750   max speed of 100ish  this is the plane I wanted to start with, it fit perfect with the past idea of a home strip. Since I will now be at  ATW my girlfriend  thinks we need to start with (example) rv 9 rv 7  max speed 180ish so that we can do cross country flights easier.  My goal is to have two planes one slow and low and one low wing that does 180 or more.  My girlfriend is going to get her lic and helping pay to play so I need to keep her happy. We can afford two planes if there spread out over the build times of im guessing three years each.  My girlfriend has friends that are located with in 200 to 800 miles of were we live  and she is flying commercial to see them alot. Thats were she wants a faster plane so we can decide to drive 25 min to the airport and fly out for the weekend to visit.

We do know that we wont save money owning a plane to travel, its convenance.

So what would you do? Is there a better home built under 80k that will keep both of us happy until we can have two planes bought and built? I do need to keep my girlfriend interested so do I give on my end to keep her onboard?

Were both getting private lic so LSA doesn't matter, landing strip length no longer matters. Keep in mind the 800 mile we would want to travel a few times a year. I would still get the stol 750 either way just a matter of first or second.  I do understand that all planes are designed for there purpose.

 How fast of a plane is need to fly 800 miles one way for a weekend trip?

 

I looking for thoughts to help me make a desion on my first plane.



Dave Prizio
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
118
Posts
29
#2 Posted: 3/30/2011 11:19:49

If you want to split the difference between an RV and the Zenith you could look at a GlaStar. Kits are no longer produced but there is still good factory support for them and uncompleted kits can often be found for around $25K. An $80K budget for a complete plane is reasonable. That would give you a cruise speed in the 150-160 mph range and pretty good short field performance.

If longer trips on weekends are a high priority, the RV is going to be a better choice, as long as you don't mind the space and weight limitations. However, if you and/or your girlfriend are large, the RV may be too tight to be comfortable on long trips.  You definitely want to check that out before you build.

The Glasair II and the Lancair Legacy are worth considering if you want to cover a lot of ground quickly, but the Lancair may strain you budget beyond its limit. You will also need to be sure you can fit inside of them.

One last thing, I don't think that 800 miles one way is the kind of trip you will really want to make on a weekend, at least not very often. Nine or ten hours of flying is a bit much for two days or even three. The other problem is that being that far from home puts a lot of potential weather between you and where you want to be, if you have to be back at work Monday morning. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't think it is realistic to plan on it.



Chris Aerts
30
Posts
4
#3 Posted: 3/30/2011 13:23:33

Thanks Dave

Let me describe this more I really need help making up my mind.  The only small plane I flew  in is a remos for one hour at a time. I go to my flight school and pay to fly so i keep the bug alive to do this. We dont bother loging the hours as I go every few months.  First i want to build what  I get. Second no fabric

I dont want more than 200,000 in a plane or planes and I will be able to spend 25-30k a year during building as I will only build what I have cash for no loans. I have looked at the Glasair sportsman never the II and I really like them also. The Lancair is way over budget.  One reason im looking at two planes is to cover cheep 5-6gph with mogas flying with in WI and touching states. The other will get me there in a hurry.   So if i do get one plane like a (sample) zenith 650 that does 140 will that cover the slow and the fast or is it not fast enough to get somewear.  I really kinda want floats and skis on a slower plane and the stol 750 meets that well but the stol 750 falls really  short in speed.

We do need a large cabin as were not small people

Or do i just get the Glasair sportsman  and be happy with the 160 mph and its a 4 seater. I see the budget is 75-125 per Kitplanes

So how far is comfortable to fly in a day?   Her friend lives in Boston MA or do we forget that idea and fly comercial for that one???

How many of you have four seaters and use four seats



Dave Prizio
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
118
Posts
29
#4 Posted: 3/31/2011 11:48:49

Let me start by saying that I am partial to the Sportsman, having built one myself.  However, the numbers you mention from KITPLANES are unrealistic. The kit price for the Sportsman with shipping is about $55K. There is no way you are going to get one flying for $75K unless you steal the engine and prop and have no radios. A good general rule of thumb is to take the kit price and triple it for a complete airplane. For $55K x 3 ($165K) you can have a nice airplane with a new engine and some decent radios. You can build for less but you will get less. With the IO-390 engine you can easily cruise at 145 knots (167 mph). That makes a trip of 3-400 nm each way a reasonable weekend jaunt.  It also gives you a plane that can land on a 1200 foot grass strip fairly easily.

You will have to decide what you are comfortable with as far as how far you fly in one day. If I am trying to cover a lot of ground I will fly 6 to 8 hours in day. Some people will push that to 12 hours per day, but I find that way too tiring. Some of it depends on weather. Four or five hours of hard IFR or rough turbulence will pretty much wear anyone out, but a clear smooth day will let you do much more.

Appleton to Boston is definitely doable in one day, but I don't think that round trip in a weekend is a reasonable thing to do. It just doesn't leave you any time for being in Boston. However, you can make that decision for yourself.

I think that two planes is also something you should really think long and hard about. That is a lot more insurance and hangar costs, and more time spent doing maintenance. I suggest you focus on one plane that meets 90% of your needs, get that done, and then see what you want to do from there.

 



Leonard Nolden
4
Posts
0
#5 Posted: 3/31/2011 22:51:51

Remember getting there is half the fun. If you are flying your own airplane, especialy if you built it, it may not so much matter where you go.Getting there may be most of the fun! 



Doug Drummond
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
9
Posts
0
#6 Posted: 4/1/2011 00:35:54

The most common trips are ones where you can come and go in one day.  The final years of my dad's life, we would leave DPA Chicago) and fly a C-172 to Indianapolis Mount Comfort or Brookside (gone)--105NM/Hr or 120 Statute MPH.  I'm in a flying club. We would leave about noon, take my Dad to dinner, and get back about midnight.

If I could afford more airplane, it would be a C-182, flying 120 Nautical ~~ 140 Statute.  We use the airplane like a car and stop at museums, etc. along the way when on vacation--maybe 3-4 hours per day.  We have established that we can get home from Kearney Nebraska (family home town) in one day with two 3-hour legs in a 172 or Archer.  With two pilots it will be even easier, and I recommend a side-by-side airplane for Crew Resource Management.  My wife is not rated by does all the professional "Pilot Not Flying" chores very professionally--including setting radios in IFR.

 

Doug Drummond, International Flying Club.



Doug Drummond, International Flying Club PP-ASEL-IA
Chris Aerts
30
Posts
4
#7 Posted: 4/1/2011 06:43:13

Thanks Guys

It looks like ill be really busy again this year air Air Venture looking at homebuilts that will best fill my wants and needs in a plane.  It just very hard to find one plane that fills my wants that is still affordable to fly  and build.  Goog thing im only 45 min away from OSH !!



Lucas Walker
4
Posts
0
#8 Posted: 4/1/2011 20:50:18

Hey Chris,

 

I don't know much about the aircraft, but you might check out the Jodel or Jodel inspired Falconar planes.  They fly reasonably fast, and they are also fuel efficient according to the Jodel website.

 

Jodel or Falconar Avia. 



Bill Larson
Homebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
2
Posts
1
#9 Posted: 4/2/2011 01:32:06

Not here to bust a bubble....but

I joined EAA in 1980 and wanted to build my own rocket to the stars.  and started on two airplanes.  after mutch soul searching I setteled on a sonex.  Not as sexey as a Lancair nor as poular as the RV'S.  but more Dooable than some of the others. I am about to mount the wings and finish this bird and try to commit aviation

 



Chris Aerts
30
Posts
4
#10 Posted: 4/2/2011 09:18:16

Hey Guys thanks for more replies.

Im just trying to see what other people think about my ideas of what plane to build. Im trying to staying realistic with the project.  My father has been taking my to EAA for the past 35 plus years. I am 38. He has wanted a plane his entire life and mom wouldn't let him have one. He has been retired for 4 years and still wants to fly but mom still wont let him have one do to his poor health. My girlfriend and I are both happily divorced  with out kids in no hurry to get remarried so we do have enough extra income to play so I will fill dads dreams of flying before he cant fly. Dad wont get his lic i would just have to pull my feet back and let go of the stick and let him fly with me in the plane.  Im also doing it for me.



Phil White
Homebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
2
Posts
0
#11 Posted: 4/2/2011 20:49:40

Chris:    I suggest you study the specs on Van's planes, paying particular attention to the wide speed range most of them offer.  You can fly an RV-7 or -9 at 200 mph to get there fast, but also throttle back to a 60 mph loafing speed at 6 gph, when you just want to sightsee.

    If space is an issue, my RV-10 will fit just about anyone, and carry friends too.  I may be in the minority, but using the Mazda 20B rotary engine is allowing my completed plane to come in under $70K, with a 'lite' IFR panel of GRT Sport and 2 axis auto-pilot.  Can't be beat, in my book!

    Tho not good for floats (tho it's been done on one 2 seater), a Van's bird will meet most of the other requirements you mention.

Phil



David Gray
IAC MemberHomebuilder or CraftsmanUltralight EnthusiastAirVenture Volunteer
38
Posts
10
#12 Posted: 4/3/2011 02:33:42

Hey Chris,

Build if you want to build, Buy if you want to fly. When it is all said and done, most revert to STOL. Yours' is the dilemma of GA. Your father has obviously planted the seed, I hope you will glean it.

Dave