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Sorry...but Saturdays airshow was poor.

Posted By:
Eric Cederstrand
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#1 Posted: 8/3/2009 10:11:36

I feel like I need a disclaimer - I love the EAA and the annual trip to Oshkosh.  It is part of my life and is becoming part of my family’s lives.  Over the past 20 years I have been to the event at least 15 times and have seen about 35 of the airshows.

Saturday’s airshow ranks the lowest I can remember.  What happened this year? 


I missed last year, but 2007 was unbelievable.  ’04, ’05, and ’06 were great too.  There is a lot of fun and good times at this event, but the heart of Oshkosh is the airshow and I thought that was forgotten about this year.  It seems to be getting too commercialized too.  Anyone else?



David Leiting
AirVenture Volunteer
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#2 Posted: 8/3/2009 10:35:18

Well im much more into the warbirds but the arobatics do seem to have been so great recently and the Warbird show on friday was amazing hah sorry.



Gailyn King
Homebuilder or Craftsman
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#3 Posted: 8/3/2009 17:45:36

 I have to agree on the airshow. But, I'll take it one step further.  I thought all of the airshows were poor this year.  I have always enjoyed them in the past, but this year they just seemed flat.  I really thought the car vs plane and the dumb chopper ride on was just a filler to waste time.  I miss the mass fly-overs and there was nothing really special this year at all except for White Knight Two.  The A380 was a joke. This is the EAA, not the Paris Air Show.  I could care less about production airliners, and that pig did nothing that a 747 couldn't do better 40 years ago.  The best part was when that thing left and the military aircraft arrived to take its place. I just feel like the EAA is moving even further away from the "Experimental" groups and now catering to commercial and production plane interests.

 



John McHugh
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#4 Posted: 8/3/2009 18:59:04 Modified: 8/4/2009 17:38:20

I enjoyed seeing the Airbus and thought it was pretty special, but - When it was doing those slow, high-angle-of-attack maneuvers I was quietly saying prayers, "Please no worldwide news story coming out of my fun aviation event vaction," and remembering that this aircraft was designed by a government committee! 

 



Thomas Steber
125
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55
#5 Posted: 8/3/2009 22:24:55

Over 39 years of Oshkosh/Airventure"s I've seen a lot of air show's, airshow acts and warbird shows.

I thought that Tuesdays air show was really good.  Warbirds too, even without pyro.

I was disappointed with Friday's show.  Both aerobatic and Warbird.

I know that ALL the airshow acts are good at what they do.  But, I was a little disappointed that it was going to be all women.  Nothing against women, I'm married to one.  Even though they were good, I just personally like the guy acts better.

As far as the warbird shows,  I haven't seen a REALLY GOOD one since 1990-1995.  Maybe the last time "Fifi" was there.  I also realize that the warbird show is only possible by what warbirds make it to the show, who can/will fly in the show, etc.  Friday's show did seem a little slow and anti-climactic even with the "wall of fire". 

Back in the 90's there were larger formations of trainers, more bombers in formation, tighter show.

Now, I really can't complain much.  I mean getting the chance just to see and hear these great flying aircraft in person is a privilege.  And I thank everyone who flies them to Oshkosh and flies in the show. 

Their keeping history alive.



Waiting on the Powerball!
Joe Kanak
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#6 Posted: 8/4/2009 08:08:42

This was my 30th trip to Oshkosh for the air show, and I also was disappointed with the Saturday Warbird spectacular. In the past you would have the whole slew of planes in the air - Corsairs, P-40's, Spitfires, B-17's, Sea Fury, etc.   Maybe some of the Warbirds left early because of possible Saturday rain? Also, I arrived on Thursday, and left on Sunday. Were the advertised Japanese Zero and Messerschmitt there earlier in the week? I never saw them.



Laurie Probst
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerAirVenture Volunteer
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#7 Posted: 8/4/2009 09:11:26

Thomas,

I have to disagree with you regarding the differences you perceive with male vs. female airshow performers.  Both go through the same rigorous training and practice regime.  The two females who have flown with the USAF Thunderbirds don't do anything differently than their male counterparts....  As someone who has worked behind the scenes at several airshows and spoken with the actual performers, I believe your perception of male vs. female is merely that--perception.  As a female commercial pilot, instrument rated, advanced ground instructor, I had to meet PTS standards just like anyone else.  And can you tell the difference when one of my female counterparts is flying an airliner?  Hmmm....

 



I learned what every dreaming child needs to know--no horizon is so far that you cannot see above or beyond it. -Beryl Markham
Zack Baughman
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#8 Posted: 8/4/2009 10:36:32 Modified: 8/4/2009 12:27:11
Joe Kanak wrote:

 

This was my 30th trip to Oshkosh for the air show, and I also was disappointed with the Saturday Warbird spectacular. In the past you would have the whole slew of planes in the air - Corsairs, P-40's, Spitfires, B-17's, Sea Fury, etc.   Maybe some of the Warbirds left early because of possible Saturday rain? Also, I arrived on Thursday, and left on Sunday. Were the advertised Japanese Zero and Messerschmitt there earlier in the week? I never saw them.

 

 

It is largely up to the owners whether or not the warbirds participate in the show.  Sometimes a great many want to participate in the flying, sometimes not.  It's largely a personal decision, and I respect that.  I also respect the fact that so many warbird owners are willing to bring their aircraft to Oshkosh every year, at considerable cost to their pocketbooks.  These men and women are sharing their passion for flying by sharing their planes with us.  Whether it be in the air or on the ground, I for one am happy just to have them here to see and enjoy.  Regarding the Zero - I actually never saw it and do not know the scoop on it, but the ME-109 had a wing strike a poorly positioned pole on the ground while landing not so long ago, and the repairs could not be completed in time to bring it here.  The owner desparately tried to have the repairs finished in time, but it could not be done properly and it was the right decision to leave it at home.  On the subject of warbirds, there were FIVE, count them FIVE P-40s here this year...unbelievable! 

 

 

 



EAA Timeless Voices Program Coordinator & Museum Collections Assistant "Let No Story Go Untold!"
Thomas Steber
125
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55
#9 Posted: 8/4/2009 12:51:07
Laurie Probst wrote:

 

Thomas,

I have to disagree with you regarding the differences you perceive with male vs. female airshow performers.  Both go through the same rigorous training and practice regime.  The two females who have flown with the USAF Thunderbirds don't do anything differently than their male counterparts....  As someone who has worked behind the scenes at several airshows and spoken with the actual performers, I believe your perception of male vs. female is merely that--perception.  As a female commercial pilot, instrument rated, advanced ground instructor, I had to meet PTS standards just like anyone else.  And can you tell the difference when one of my female counterparts is flying an airliner?  Hmmm....

 

I believe you misinterpreted what I said.  I believe I said that I JUST PREFER the guy performers.  I never stated anything of the sort about them not being really good or not trained as well.  I also prefer some male performers over other male performers.  It's just that.  My personal preference.  I'm sorry if you were offended.  That would be the last thing I would want to do.  Congratulations on your accomplishments too. 



Waiting on the Powerball!
Stuart Fraley
9
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#10 Posted: 8/4/2009 13:32:56
Laurie Probst wrote:

 

I have to disagree with you regarding the differences you perceive with male vs. female airshow performers.  Both go through the same rigorous training and practice regime.    And can you tell the difference when one of my female counterparts is flying an airliner?  Hmmm....

 

 

Right.  And the ones who are really good (Wagstaff, Rihn-Harvey, Clark) are airshow fixtures.  The other performers at the Friday show were either a) people I'd never heard of, performing on a 1000-ft waiver or b) wingwalkers.

OSH should be the place to see world-class talent.  There was plenty of that on display.  But there were also some B-listers who got to play OSH strictly because they were women.



Joe Norris
Vintage Aircraft Association MemberYoung Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
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#11 Posted: 8/4/2009 14:00:48
Thomas Steber wrote: 

....I said that I JUST PREFER the guy performers.....It's just that.  My personal preference. 

 

Thomas,

I understand what you're saying.  I have my favorites too.  Unfortunately, most of my favorites don't perform anymore.  Guys like Harold Krier, Clint McHenry, Maron Cole, Big Ed Mahler, and gals like Betty Skelton are more my style.  The current "twist your head off" violent maneuvers, while amazing both from the standpoint of the ability for both pilot and airplane to withstand the "g" loading, are not as pleasant to watch as the older, more fluid, flowing routines these folks I've mentioned used to fly.  It just ain't as fun to watch as before.

Just my $.02 US!

Joe



Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
Thomas Steber
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#12 Posted: 8/4/2009 16:56:04
Joe Norris wrote:

 

Thomas Steber wrote: 

....I said that I JUST PREFER the guy performers.....It's just that.  My personal preference. 

 

Thomas,

I understand what you're saying.  I have my favorites too.  Unfortunately, most of my favorites don't perform anymore.  Guys like Harold Krier, Clint McHenry, Maron Cole, Big Ed Mahler, and gals like Betty Skelton are more my style.  The current "twist your head off" violent maneuvers, while amazing both from the standpoint of the ability for both pilot and airplane to withstand the "g" loading, are not as pleasant to watch as the older, more fluid, flowing routines these folks I've mentioned used to fly.  It just ain't as fun to watch as before.

Just my $.02 US!

Joe

Wow, Ed Mahler.  Man he was  THE one to watch back in the 70's.  Somewhere I have old home movies of Ed flying at Oshkosh.  For that matter, I probably have home movies of all of them flying at Oshkosh.

Of the current performers who take you back, my favorite is John Mohr.  He always flies in an airshow about a half an hour from me in Manitowoc, WI every June.  Really love it when he's able to fly at Airventure.  Hopefully, next year.  I just don't get tired of seeing him.



Waiting on the Powerball!
Ian Heritch
Homebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
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#13 Posted: 8/4/2009 21:45:01

I am no Warbirds expert, but I believe we are now noticing a trend that began some time ago, that is a general decline in Warbird activity.  Flying examples of the Warbirds we like to see (bombers, P51, P40, etc.) are decreasing in number, so, the $ value of these birds is higher than ever. Add to this the enormous cost of operating these aircraft and its no wonder there are fewer of them around.  This doesn't mean that from time to time we can't bring big groups of these Warbirds together, but I think those events will be fewer and fewer.  I'm just sayin.



Kelly Nelson
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#14 Posted: 8/4/2009 22:01:42

Joe Norris wrote:

 

Thomas Steber wrote: 

....I said that I JUST PREFER the guy performers.....It's just that.  My personal preference. 

 

Thomas,

I understand what you're saying.  I have my favorites too.  Unfortunately, most of my favorites don't perform anymore.  Guys like Harold Krier, Clint McHenry, Maron Cole, Big Ed Mahler, and gals like Betty Skelton are more my style.  The current "twist your head off" violent maneuvers, while amazing both from the standpoint of the ability for both pilot and airplane to withstand the "g" loading, are not as pleasant to watch as the older, more fluid, flowing routines these folks I've mentioned used to fly.  It just ain't as fun to watch as before.

Just my $.02 US!

Joe

I think I get what you're saying too, the point Laurie was just trying to make is just, what's the difference if they're male or female performers?  You have performers you like and those you don't like. Specifically categorizing them by their gender was probably opening a can you  should have just left untouched if you weren't looking for that kind of debate. 

I appreciate what was trying to be done with Friday's air show...what better way to celebrate the fact that women are an accepted part of the aviation community than to give them a chance to shine. Regardless of whether or not they're you're favorite performers, those women have all worked very hard to earn the chance at performing for the AirVenture crowd, and I hope we can all stand behind them and support them as they continue to positively represent a sport/hobby/passion we all share.

Someone above also mentioned that they were "B-list"... perhaps, in some cases, that is true. But they must be doing something right to be tapped to perform at this air show. And maybe, as they grow and perfect their techniques, they will one day be "A-list" and one of your favorites.... and then you will truly appreciate how far they've come.



EAA 787745 Associate Editor, EAA Publications
Jim Hann
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#15 Posted: 8/5/2009 09:03:51

We also lost a lady aerobatic pilot/performer too this year, and two boys lost their mom. Chandy Clanton, rest in peace.

I know that we have lost other acts, including all three pilots from the "Masters of Disaster."  Others have retired, i.e. Bob Hoover.  Eventually someone will come along and will "revolutionize" the airshow performance by doing a show like some of these folks did but we won't realize it until they've been around for years as Kelly says.  Kyle and Matt have picked up the torch from their fathers, and have done a good job in my opinion, but they are different people doing their own act, not imitating their dads.

Part of it too is that I would have expected the all women's show on maybe Tuesday or Wednesday, but look at the weekend shows for the big headliner type acts, although I personally don't need to see an "extended" warbird show each day (I know that will draw both applause and flames, go for it!)
goggles

Jim



http://sites.google.com/site/jimscavaliersa1025/ http://picasaweb.google.com/CozyCanard http://sites.google.com/site/cavalieraircraft/
Joe Norris
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#16 Posted: 8/5/2009 09:13:40
Thomas Steber wrote:

Of the current performers who take you back, my favorite is John Mohr. 

 

I agree Thomas, John puts on a great show.  I enjoy watching him manhandle that Stearman.  That is NOT an easy job!  And the plane sounds wonderful to boot!

Cheers!

Joe



Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
Joe Norris
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#17 Posted: 8/5/2009 09:22:01
Kelly Nelson wrote:

... the point Laurie was just trying to make is just, what's the difference if they're male or female performers? 

 

Kelly,

I understood Laurie's point and I wasn't disputing it.  MY point was that in general I don't like the style of the current crop of performers.  I enjoy the more flowing style of the people I mentioned in my post.  There are some VERY good female performers, and some VERY good male performers.  (And there are some that are not as good on both sides).  I don't differentiate by gender.  I differentiate by style and presentation.  I get tired of watching the same thing over and over again these days.

Like I said before, just my personal opinion.  Your mileage my vary!

Joe



Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
Kelly Nelson
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
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#18 Posted: 8/5/2009 10:33:31
Kelly,

I understood Laurie's point and I wasn't disputing it.  MY point was that in general I don't like the style of the current crop of performers.  I enjoy the more flowing style of the people I mentioned in my post.  There are some VERY good female performers, and some VERY good male performers.  (And there are some that are not as good on both sides).  I don't differentiate by gender.  I differentiate by style and presentation.  I get tired of watching the same thing over and over again these days.

Like I said before, just my personal opinion.  Your mileage my vary!

Joe

I know, Joe.  I wasn't picking on your post.  Sorry it seemed that way!



EAA 787745 Associate Editor, EAA Publications
Eric Cederstrand
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#19 Posted: 8/5/2009 10:52:05

 

 

 

 

 

Oshkosh has been the ultimate aviation event in North America…thus the world for years.  Everything has grown except for the airshows and I think that is sad.  It doesn’t matter if you are male or female!  I want to see the best acts at the best show and anything less brings everything else down.

I understand it costs a lot to fly the warbirds, but if they are able to fly, they should be flying at this event.  The extended warbirds show on Saturday didn’t have a P-38, B-29, B-24, B-17, TBM Avenger, large formations of T-6’s, etc (I am not a warbird guy but I missed seeing these – I’m sad my 8, 6, and 2 ½ year old didn’t get to see them fly).

WK2 will be historic and was nice to see.  The A380, C5 and C17 were ok, but if you can remember what the C5 and the Antonov did at Oshkosh a few years back, wow, and the C17 and F22 extended demonstrations in ’07…it amplifies my point. 

John Mohr in his stock stearman, Kent Pietsch and his high wing comedy routine, the Reno Air Race demonstration, etc.  There was a lot missing from this event.



Paul Stuart
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#20 Posted: 8/5/2009 11:28:14

There is no B-29 flying anywhere in the world right now!

John Mohr in his stock Stearman is a great act, though.



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