Does This Annoy Other People, Too ? Or Am I Just Over-Sensitive ?

People aren't supposed to be leaving chairs at the flightline. I'm surprised they aren't be confiscated at they are supposed to be.

If people are not meant to be leaving chairs on the flightline then that system is not working at all as even at midday today there were large flightline front row spaces 'reserved' by chairs that had been left in bags. If people want to sit there and keep the space by being there then that is fine but to expect a chair (folded in its bag) to keep a space is a a bit much.

There were people confiscating chairs there.  They just didn't seem to be doing it the first few days. 

I sit in virtually the same spot every year, which is pretty much right in front of the pink dot on 18/36.

So I don't know how they do with people leaving bag chairs laying down to the north of the announcers stand, but I did see A LOT of them sitting there Monday about 11:30.

I too BTW always stake my claim no later than 11:30-12:00.  I'm almost always front row.  And I want it for the same reasons as stated a few posts earlier, unobstructed view.  I try not to use my small umbrella so I don't block peoples view behind me.  If i do use it, it's before the airshow starts.  Once the airshow starts, I try not to stand up unless the guy next to me (or the guy next to him and his 38 kids) is blocking my view.

Most of the time there is no problem though.  But I must confess to all here, that back in the late 80's when I first started video taping, I used to stand up to video from the front row too!  I ask your forgiveness.

I'm in the same boat as Thomas as far as standing...and getting to the show line very early! However, for a lot of things I will stand up because filming while sitting is not easy. I've never really had good luck filming while sitting in a chair...the footage is way too shakey to use. Though I do find it easier to shoot stills from a chair, so it helps limit the amount of standing I do. Also, I usually sit under the wing of someone's plane (or my plane) and film from there, because nobody typically sits behind me.

SLICK

Though I don't shoot video, I did stand up and take photos often.  Most days I got to OSH at 7 AM or shortly after and stayed on the flight line with my camera.  It is not easy to wave around a large/long/heavy lens when you are sitting down.  The shots I got when standing were noticeably better.

Someone complained to me and I pretty much ignored them.  If they had said another word I would have told them to come at 7AM and sit here all day as I have.  Usually I warned people that sat behind me that I would stand up some during the show.  Some people left and went to find another spot, while others didn't really mind.

When I was a kid, people stood in front of me all the time.  I guess now is the time for me to do the standing!

how about all the people smoking on the flightline too...

You are correct Scott, it gets a bit annoying when people in the front row find it necessary to stand, even if taking photos or shooting video. You can still get good results when kneeling or sitting. If one feels they must stand, at least let that youngster behind  you sit in front of you so he can see the show too.

Be considerate of others and enjoy the show.

Jim

Addressing several issues:

1.    People placing their chairs on the flightline HOURS before the show and adbandoning them.  I know i have seen it published in several places that this is not allowed, BUT, I kept seeing many many chairs each and every day just laying along the flight line with no one near them.  Many times I would see one of the volunteers that worked the lines walk past these chairs and not do anything.  What was so frustrating is that I saw several cases that those chairs were still laying on the ground with no one around them and the air show was in progress!!!!  This meant that valuable space was being taken up by these empty chairs.  THIS NEEDS TO BE POLICED AND RE-INFORCED MORE THOROUGHLY ! !

2.    People standing taking pictures when in the front row.  Although I was never lucky enough to be able to get to the front row (mainly because of item 1 above)  I was able to be within 10 or 15 fdeet of the front row and one thing that I noticed is that many times there is an aircraft or other vehicle parcked right on the flight line.  If it is a small aircraft that is parked it is impossible to follow an aircraft making a low pass over the runway when sitting down as the parked aircraft will block out part of the flight of the aircraft.  But when you stand you are now able to follow the aircraft in flight as it makes it's high speed low pass down the runway when you try to get that perfect shot.

Venting is good, especially about people who act as though the whole world revolves around them. (Which, sadly, is way too many people.)

1. Chairs; I can't imagine why umbrellas and sunshade chairs are even allowed on the flight line. Personally, I would not dream of doing it. It would obstruct my own view, not to mention those of others.  Use a hat, sunglasses and sunscreen.

2. Chairs again. Volunteers were checking for empty chairs, although I guess not as thoroughly as the should. I had two chairs set up under the wing of my plane in Warbirds parking. I sent my son off to get a hotdog and a volunteer came up to me and asked about the empty chair next to me. This was actually about an hour or so BEFORE the airshow started. Again, I was back in the L-bird section of warbird parking. Perhaps his effort would have been better spent farther forward.

3. Standing. As with one of the other posters, if you have to, you have to, but be considerate towards the others who paid their entrance fee to see the whole show, and not sit in one spot all day.

nonetheless, I was able to find a decent spot at the edge of aeroshell square and managed to get some good pix sitting down or on my knees. Yes, someone is bound to walk in front of you at just the right moment. Live with it. You won't get all the shots.  Besides, as most of you know, the secret to getting one perfect shot is to take 100 or more. Fortunately with digital cameras, that costs next to nothing.

Yes, venting makes you feel better, as long as you can enjoy the good experiences you had and look forward to 2011!

Please do not get me wrong .... although there were a couple concerns that I have expressed, I would not give this experience up for anything!  Too many times only the negativity of an event is heard and not the positive comments. 

Let me tell you that if I were to rate this experience from 1 to 100 I would give it 99.9999.  Why not a 100?  No one is perfect!  This year the volunteers and everyone on staff for AirVenture really had their hands full and they did a remarkable job of it.  My hat off to everyone one of you for a job very well done.  I really don't know how you did it but you did!  i stayed at Camp Scholler again this year and everyone there went out of their way to help me with what ever problems I had.  These volunteers must have the patience of a saint!  I commend you all.

I am looking forward to getting back there next year.

If there are empty chairs on the flightline with no one around... move them out of your way. Behind you, or off to the side. The rules say people are not to leave them there. Aircraft may be moving in or out of the rows until the airshow begins and the chairs present a hazard.

The problem is one of expectation created by the non-aviation events the largely non-aviation AirVenture atttendees visit in their home towns.

The lack of courtesy is one of the loss of civility having evolved in society in the past couple decades. Add to that the fact that the offenders are amateur photographers/videographers who know nothing about composition and whose images aren't worth the media they are recorded on. No amount of photoshopping could correct their lousy technique.

We had tons of chairs we picked up from the vintage flight line (which is essentially everything from the announcer's stand south).  But I spent most airshows down at classic point (which is roughly opposite the Hangar Cafe) and there were plenty of seats to be had on the "burn line" from there south.

The other option is to volunteer to do crowd control during the airshow.   I spend most of the airshow sitting ten or so feet in front of the burn line periodically taking a peak to make sure everybody else is behind the line and hoping I don't have to do anything like hold people back like happened during the P-51 entanglement a few years back or the Jack Roush crash this year.

Agree about the chairs - whole lengths of flight line taken up by empty / folded chairs. Some were moved by people and boy did the chair owners bitch when they came back - touch luck - if you want to keep a space then stay there.

This was my 4th AirVenture.  Typically, I only try to sit and watch the Saturday Airshow, usually finding a good spot about 10-15' back from the front line somewhere south of midfield. I have never tried to "save a place" with a chair, nor have I left a chair except to go to the Porta-Potti or get a cold drink (I'm with a group of 5, so the others are usually still in their seats when someone is gone for a few minutes).

With all that being said, I was completely ignorant of any "rules" about abandoned chairs, etc!  Where is this posted? I'm sure it might be in some of the printed materials, but for the general public - are there prominent signs to remind visitors of airshow courtesy?  If there are, I've missed them every time for four years! "Saving a place" is a common human behavior - it always amuses (and irritates) me to see this, especially at church functions! HA!

I also have never seen any sort of policing effort in my 4 Saturday airshows - if volunteers were there, they were pretty stealthy!  On the other hand, in the area where I usually sit I have never seen many abandoned chairs "saving" a place, either, so maybe they just by-pass that area.

I guess the announcers want to keep the airshow banter totally "positive", but I bet it would decrease this behavior if the announcement was made periodically  "Please refrain from leaving chairs or other articles unattended - it is hazardous and inconsiderate of others who would like to see the show - unattended items will be confiscated and you can pick them up after the show!"  A strategically placed row of these signs along the front line would probably be useful, too.  Also, sadly, in this day and age, an unattended item of any sort is suspect and should be investigated.

Please understand my comments - I'm not complaining because I've had minimal problems with seeing the show.  I'm just pointing out that after four years, I was unaware of any rules, although of course they just codify common sense and courtesy, but some people "just don't get it" and it would be handy to point them to a sign to give them a clue!

Regards,

John

The rules about chairs are posted (although we're planning larger and more signs at least in Vintage).  The announcers DO make such announcments along with comments about NO SMOKING and picking up your trash.   You going to the porta potty or the drink line while your companions watch your seat isn't a problem.  It's when people set up a couple of unattended chairs and leave them completely unattended which can cause problems with the show aircraft you are sitting around that is the issue.    It's not just the discourtesy of blocking other's views.

 At least in the Vintage area, there are always people around from 6AM to 8PM.   Can't vouch for north of show center.

This is one of the reasons why I usually take my shower during the airshow.  It's the best time of day to get in and out of the showers.  Airventure is like Disney World.  You just can't do it all in one trip.  So the daily airshow has become one of my less favorite things to do during the week.  I must be getting old.

Since in 4 years/4 Saturday airshows I haven't seen a sign nor heard an announcement by the airshow announcers, maybe the management should review the effectiveness of their signs and announcements.  Perhaps you're on the right track with larger and more numerous signs. I even use a Flight Line radio to hear the announcers clearly - I sure don't remember any announcement during the airshow Saturday - maybe I just missed it, but it would be hard to miss it if it were repeated periodically.

I'm a realist and know that no sign or announcement is going to be a "cure all", but it can't hurt!

Thanks to everyone for the great effort this year! I came expecting "MudVenture" and it was still "AirVenture"!

Regards,

John

When you see a row of those UNOPENED collapsible chairs still in their protective covers laying in a pretty little row it makes a person want to take those chairs and move them about 40 feet back under a plane wing.

Seriously though, it was mentioned earlier that all we need to do is to move the chairs ourselves if we find the chairs unattended in such a manner.  The problem with that is that you are now risking a confrontation between attendees.  I would imagine that this is the last thing you would want.  My suggestion would be to try to find a volunteer or official and have them remove the chairs to alleviate any unwanted confrontations between patrons.

Just a thought.

You guys did a great job despite the rains!  You all deserve a huge pat on the back!

Heck, I'd be glad to be that volunteer that does nothing but seize "space saving" chairs. Just issue me a gator and some kind of offical volunteer capacity. I don't do much during the afternoons anyway

"Chairman of chair seizing".

I like that.