Suggestions for Oshkosh 2011

First, before I add my own suggestions, my sincerest condolences, Rick.  As long as your dad is in your thoughts, he will never be gone.

As for my own suggestion, this comes from my railfan days.  During passenger steam excursions, a photo run would be set up.  The rules were pretty simple and woe betide anyone who violated them.  Mainly, everyone lined up with their cameras in such a way as no one would be blocked, and no one would take special advantage of a set up. 

OK, how does this relate to AirVenture?  Well, the logistics of the flight line would seriously preclude a the crowd lining up at a thirty to forty-five degree angle to 18/36 (which is pretty typical of photo run-bys of steam locomotives).  However, if we could have certain special subjects made available in a relatively isolated setting, one where crowds, Gators, etc., aren't a factor, that would be tremendous.  Since the photographer's "golden time" is that short period either side of sunrise and sunset, this might not be too difficult to arrange as the crowds would be at a minimum.  There would have to be the same type of logistics involved as on a carrier, setting things up so the subject of the day would be easily accessable.

I would love to have had the opportunity to have shot the DC-2 or the DC-7 in their own glory.  In my submission for the photo contest, I was lucky to have gotten as "clean" an image as I did, although the "baggage cart", "suitcase", and "ramp rat" in the backroung (just visible under the fuselage) are really a Gator, a battery charger, and an EAA staffer...

Rick,

I've been to 15 AirVentures and this is the first time the mosquitoes were that bad. I can only assume that it was because of the enormous amounts of rain prior to that week that the mosquitoes were in such abundant swams. Again I can only assume that the grounds keepers were not able to maintain the PHP tent area because they were so busy trrying to get the grounds back in shape for parking planes and campers that some areas like the PHP tent had to go unatteneded. I did find the aroma in the tent a change of pace from the usual jet fuel and porta-potty smells that I associate with Oshkosh !!! As Steve said, we are in Wisconsin after all!

Laura

(For those that weren't there, grounds crew were filling low and flooded areas with fill dirt. The fill dirt was formeraly from a cow pasture. 
)

Rick,

Sorry to hear about your father's passing.

As for my own suggestions, here they are.  My perspective is as a roughly 10-year Airventure veteran, with 2 small kids (one who turned 6 at OSH this year and one who is 4).  As usual, the show overall was great and the volunteers were wonderful.  So I hope this is taken as constructive criticism and not complaining:

1) Hours need to be posted somewhere on the website for:

    - Exhibit halls

    - Buses (museum, seaplane base, North 40, Camp Scholler)

    - Trams (red, yellow, blue, etc.)

    - Museum

    - Food vendors (individually, since they are all different).  Menus, or at least a rough idea of the type of food available at each site, would be helpful too.

I think SOME, but not all, of the hours for these things were scattered throughout the website.  But a lot of times were not published.  Especially now with so many people able to check the website from their phones, it would be nice to have this type of information handy in one location online.

2) When hours are defined, they need to be accurate.  Someone posted on this forum before the show that trams run until 8pm.  In reality, they started shutting down around 7:30.  I certainly need the exercise, but walking with the 4 and 6 year old from Vintage to the North 40 because the trams decide to shut down 30 minutes early is not a fun experience.  I assume the same is true for those at the other end of the age spectrum (elderly), etc.

3)  Along the same lines, it would sure be nice to keep the trams running later than even 8pm; maybe until the Theater in the Woods activities are over.  (Again, young kids and older folks may need the help getting from there to the North 40 or red lot areas).

4)  The soft ground and mosquitoes were really bad this year, but I'm not sure what EAA could have done about it.  I think the volunteers did as good a job as possible considering the circumstances.

Just my $0.02!

Steve Lin

The trams are operated by volunteers but there is a school bus that runs less frequently after the trams close down through the Vintage area.

Hi Rick,

First, let me add my condolences on the loss of your father.  Maybe some of the memories of Oshkosh will help in this difficult time.

Second, thank you for joining us for the Young Eagle Leaders Workshop.  I thought it was one of the best we have held.  Thanks for being considerate of those who had pre-registered.  However, there were some lunches left over, so you wouldn't have had to go away hungry.

As far as the mosquitoes, they were a real problem everywhere on site, not just in the tent.  In fact, until a few days before the show opened, the tent was the temporary storage for the open top VWs that are seen on site.  After the heavy rain the week before, it was nearly impossible to get the VWs out of the tent because it was very wet.  The mosquitoes just followed.  Normally, once the show starts, the mosquitoes have more than enough "targets" and they aren't really a bother.  Not this year.  WOW.  I've never had them so thick at the campsite.  Theater in the Woods was another place where they were out in force.  The weather didn't leave our crews much time to spray to keep the bugs down.  The same with the tables.  I'm pretty sure we ran out of time and people power to keep up with all that was going on.  Priorities were on aircraft parking and getting people into Camp Scholler.

It was an unusual year, that's for sure, but our volunteers pulled together to make do with what they had available.  Come back next year and I'll make sure we get you lucnh and a clean table! 

Thanks again for the suggestions and CONGRATULATIONS on flying your 400th Young Eagle!

Steve

I thought I had remembered there being a bus that runs after the trams from years past.  This year I asked a tram volunteer and also two different people at the EAA Welcome Center and all said there is no transportation after the trams stop running.  (I asked specifically from Theater in the Woods to the North 40, so maybe the bus runs only toward Vintage, not sure.)

Anyway, I do appreciate the tram volunteers and I'm not trying to be critical of any of them.  In fact, it doesn't even bother me that much if there is no evening transportation - the biggest thing is just putting, in an obvious place on the website, the hours of all this stuff.  That way you can plan your day/evening knowing what food and transportation services will or will not be available at what time.

I believe you are right.  The two buses that run are only from the Hangar cafe south and from the North 40 registration gates around to the north side of 9/27.   You're on your own between those points.   I've walked back from Parties in the North 40 and the Smithsonian dinner in the Hilton in the past.  

How about a grass runway???

This is the biggest want on the vintage list and the first thing I'm going to talk to Rod about.

I'm also tired of seeing "Contemporary" parked up front in Vintage. I can see '66 Barons, '67 Skyhawks and '64 Bonanza's all day long at the local airport. You could have (again) parked all the antiques in the first two rows of vintage. It's a shame. Many of the normal vintage guys were no-shows this year and I almost was.

Don,

I know that Vintage identified the site of a new grass runway earlier in the year (for tailskid airplanes) and had done some work on preparing it.   With the flooding crisis that developed in the 2 weeks prior to AirVenture, I guess it didn't come to fruition in 2010 but there should be some hope for next year.

I appreciate all of the condolences about the passing of my dad. A new thread will be started in one week about the things pilots should/could do on Young Eagle flights. Maybe some of these thoughts could be incorporated in next year’s Young Eagle program at Oshkosh.

This week, I promote aviation by having a booth at the Champaign County with the B-17 restoration people and the High Point Aviation School. Four years ago I added Horizon Hobby RC aircraft to the mix of computers I sell. Feel like a kid in a candy store.

So, I am showing and flying RC aircraft all week. Wanted to do this as I fell RC aircraft are a way for kids to become and stay interested in aviation. I am so happy to hear that the EAA is working with the AMA.

In addition, will be promoting our MEFRI fly in this September, the Grimes Flying Lab, and getting kids lined up for Young Eagle flights. The only down side is that the merchant building is not air conditioned and thus very hot inside.

As I missed hearing about the new Young Eagle program with the AMA, would Steve start a new discussion explaining those new programs?

Let’s keep discussing improvements for Oshkosh 2011.

1960's spamcans *are* "vintage", they are not "contemporary". Contemporary (in the 21st Century) would be like likes of Diamond, Cirrus, etc. Perhaps a stronger distinction between vintage and truly antique needs to be done.

My biggest gripe, airplane-wise, is all the homebuilders are leaving canopy/cabin covers on their planes the entire time they are parked at Airventure, completely ruining the ability to see in the planes and take photos. What's the point of flying your homebuilt into Oshkosh if not to show it off? This year's rainy weather was not the cause of this phenomenon either, last year it was obnoxiously prevalent too.

Yes, I know there are a lot of folks who are reading this who have the attitude that "once you've seen a thousand Van's RVs you've seen them all", but I *like* seeing these planes every year and taking pictures of them.

To help remedy this, I propose that if you fly your plane into Oshkosh, and intend to park it there all week covered up so nobody else can enjoy viewing it, then you need to pay a $25/day parking fee for it, else take that darn cover off and leave it off and you get to park it for free. I also think that if you fly into Osh in your own homebuilt aircraft that you made yourself, then your daily wristband should be free too.

Neal,

Actually, in the vernacular of Oshkosh, a 1960's era airplane is judged as a "contemporary".  See the judging categories posted on the VAA Website for info on how the categories break down.  Specifically, the "contemporary" category includes aircraft constructed by the original manufacturer, or its licensee, on or after January 1, 1956, up to and including December 31, 1970.

Cheers!

 Idea for 2011....

President Tom said the theme for Airventure 2011 is: " Stay late and feel the heat".

So what is there to do after 6pm? As pointed out on another thread, almost everything closes at 6, including the museum.

Here is an idea from Arlington 2010: Richard Bach gave a wonderful presentation in the large tent from 8- 10pm. He just took questions and wandered from various flying experiences to life issues with no real structure. The audience loved it. 

Why not get some more forums in the evening, I love the forums.

Bill

I agree on the parking issue in Vintage.   I've been arguing this for years.   The argument is they separate the parkers from the campers because "people want to look at planes rather than tents" but frankly I not only want to see the planes I like to talk to the owners and they're more likely to be there if it is their campsite as well.    This year we did jumble everything up because of the weather (even Don's choice just got random people stuffed in it).

The first few rows of the west side are reserved for the "antiques" (pre-1945).   The first dozen rows on the runway side are reserved for past grand champions, special exhibits, and some selected "pretty or unusual" planes that are parked there at the discretion of the chairmen.    The next dozen rows or so are reserved for parkers (I'd do away with this, I'd do it the way the North 40 used to do it.... parkers get sent a long way away from the show because they're not going back to their planes).   The rest of the area is just pretty much first-come, first-serve campers (there are a few rows marked out from time to time for pre-arranged type club activities, usually in the area adjacent to aircraft repair).

The "Vintage-era" creep is a battle.    It doesn't just move up with the years, but it's gone from 1965 when I first started coming to 1970.   There was a big influx of "newer" planes when they went from 67 to 70 in my observation.

Neal,

I agree completely with your point about free admission for the pilots of show planes, be they homebuilts, antiques or what not.  Those planes are part of the show, and a big part of the reason that many people come to Oshkosh in the first place.

That said, I can't disagree more with your statement above.  As a volunteer chairman in Homebuilt Parking, I spend most of my time at Oshkosh going up and down the parking rows, and I cannot agree with your statement.  The vast majority of the homebuilts are not left covered up all day.  Many pilots do (as I do when I've had my homebuilt at the show) take the cover off in the morning and put it back on at night (or when weather threatens) so depending on when you walk the rows, you might see more or less canopy covers in place.

However, for some people, flying their homebuilt into Oshkosh is simply their mode of transportation to the show, and they do not bring their plane to show off.  Since they are not being compensated for bringing their plane, I don't think it is reasonable to place a requirement on them to keep it uncovered.

This might just be preaching to the choir, but my biggest complaint is hearing complaints from those who don't volunteer.

Over 5,000 people volunteer in just about every aspect of Airventure that you can imagine.  So if you have a complaint, there's a reasonable chance that you could be part of the solution.

Do you see trash?  pick it up

Tables dirty?  help out and do a little cleaning, leave it better for the next person.

You had to wait to get a wing walker?  volunteer with the flight line crew

Departure Briefing booth was unmanned?  that's my group... we could use more help

Was Security slow to respond to a complaint?  you can help

A long line at admissions or registration?  those folks are volunteers too

You can just sit around and complain or you can get involved and make OUR convention even better.

Thank You to all the Airventure volunteers.  The world's best aviation event wouldn't happen without you.

At the risk of being labeled as looking at OSH with rose-colored glasses, I can't offer any significant suggestions for improvements on the ground.  Sure, this year was extra wet and the skeeters were horrible--but God is in charge of that sort of stuff.  That my airplane is old enough to park in Vintage Camping was a plus--I learned that VAC is nearer the action and in that regard better than the North 40--and I got to park at Wittman as opposed to Fond du lac or elsewhere.  That some folks claimed to be camping but never set up a tent--well, not all pilots are honest, just like the one who stole my phone charger from the shower trailer.  But that's the price one pays for being among 700,000 folks--not all of them are people you'd choose to be your closest friends.  It's still one of the best times any aviation enthusiast could possibly have.

This year was especially important to me.  I lost my medical last fall due to cancer and the resulting treatment and got my  special issuance in June--so being able to fly my airplane again to OSH was great!  I plan to do it as long as I can.

I do wish that the FAA controllers in the tower would call the dots more uniformly--some call one particular dot as orange, others call it red (the NOTAM says it's pink), the blue dot might be called green, etc.  This year, I was landing on 18, and the controller called the pink dot red and the yellow dot orange.  First he told me to land on the orange dot, then changed his mind as I was on short base and asked me to land on the red dot--but I couldn't see either an orange dot or a red dot.  I guessed correctly and landed only slightly beyond the pink dot (changing dots that close in was not too difficult--airplane is semi-STOL--just knowing which dot he really wanted was hard).  For those of us who are slightly color-challenged, it would be better, I think, if the controllers would stick with the using colors in the NOTAM--I have them memorized.

I truly do appreciate the efforts of the volunteers.  Most of them work as hard as if they were being well-paid--and maybe they are, because often the pride of doing a good job is pay enough.

There was a bus which replaced the tram down to the Hangar Cafe near VAC, so the walk was minimized after hours until pretty late, I think around 10:30 or 11.  But walking a lot is part of the experience, I think--and if one can't, then there are carts to rent.

Thanks to all who once again made OSH special.  It was great!!!!!

Cary

Right on Brad!  Most people don't understand that Airventure is 95% or more a volunteer event and some work year round to put it together.  Problems don't get resolved by complaining.