Legend Cub

There are two of them flying in our chapter.  One was purchased finished and the other built by the owner.  Haven't flown one myself just yet but I have heard nothing but good from the owners.  They really enjoy having doors on both sides.

Thanks for the reply. I am looking at the brochures I picked up at Oshkosk now. I really think I am going to purchase one of these. Hopefully, I will be finished with the RV by Feb. next year or sooner. If I buy the kit now, I might get sidetracked and not work on the RV as much. If you know the person who built the Cub, I would really like to speak to them. I am sure it is not as complicated as the RV, but the covering issue does give me some pause. I hope to fly one here local to see how much difference between the original cub (which I have flown) and the Legend. The doors on both sides is one of the things that attracted me to the cub.

I built a Texas Sport Cub (serial #1004)-- the kit version of the Legend Cub, which I finished the end of last year. I am based at Chino, CA and have been having a lot of fun flying it around southern California.  If you are anywhere nearby I would be glad to give you a ride.

I wrote a series of articles on building the TX Sport Cub for Kitplanes Magazine, which is now running.  I think the first article appeared 2 issues back.  There will be 7 articles total, taking it from the decision process through the flight test period. Back issues are available in print or online.

I think it is a great plane, but there are some things you would probably want to know to be a fully informed buyer.

Don't sweat the fabric work.  I was nervous when I started, but it really isn't that hard.  I actually found it an enjoyable change of pace after riveting and fiberglass work.

An unexpected plus from the experience was the introduction to the world of Cubs.  Even though it isn't really a Cub, that doesn't seem to matter.  It is a huge fraternity of great people, much like RV builders.

If you have any specific questions, please post them here or feel free to contact me directly at dave@prizio.com.

For what it is worth, I have been to the Legends factory at Sulphur Springs, Tx several times. Very nice layout and great people. There was one person there putting his kit together at the factory and I met another person completing a kit at DKR. I do not believe they were well experienced builders.  All seemed very happy and the finished kits looked as if factory built. Don't know where you are, but a visit there would be helpful.

I have a 2006 Legends Cub and love it. Maybe a bit more nose heavy that the original Cub, but an outstanding aircraft. Greater fuel cap, fly solo from front seat, greater power, great avionics. I have an RV 9A which I love and the Legends Cub. I have had a lot of planes, but this is the best combination I have ever had. I think you will be pleased with your direction!

Thanks for the info. I am reaching the home stretch on the RV7 and will probably purchase the cub sometime next year. You said it  seems to be a bit nose heavy. What kind of powerplant do you have? I am trying to decide whether to use the 200D or the Jabiru. Do you have either one or the 200A? You can reply directly if you like to rp@phillipsaluminum.com.

Richard Phillips

Richard,

I have a TX Sport Cub with the Jabiru engine. When flying solo the plane is a bit nose heavy, but still well within the allowable CG envelope.  That said, I cannot completely trim out all the nose down pressure on the stick when I slow down to landing speed. 

The use of brakes should be approached with caution when flying solo, because you can definitely put it over on its nose if you get carried away.  People have done that, but not me. However, this is typical of the Cub clones out there that use any of the heavier engines (other than Rotax).

The main thing the Jabiru has to recommend it is that it is lighter than either of the Continental engines -- about 30 pounds lighter than the O-200-A and 15 or so pounds lighter than the O-200-D. The Jabiru is a bit more work to sort out initially, and as Legend/Texas Sport does fewer of these engines, they are better at dealing with the Continentals. 

When I built my plane the O-200-D engine was not available, so I was looking at saving 30 pounds by going with the Jabiru. Given my weight and that of the friend who would most likely fly with me, that 30 pound weight saving was too much to pass up. The O-200-D engine cuts that weight saving in half, but the Jabiru is still noticeably lighter. The Jabiru has caused me more frustration to get it sorted out than I expected, but it runs fine now.  If I had it to do over again I would probably still go with the Jabiru, because the weight saving is that important to me, and I believe that the Jabiru is a good engine despite its quirks.

Thanks Dave,

Your info is very helpful as was your articles in the kit magazine. I have flown in a Legend with an O-200-A open cowl since I read your last email. I was hooked for sure. Even though the owner was over 200 pounds plus my 168,  I did not notice anything odd about the takeoff or landing. Seemed very normal to me, although it was the first time I had flown in one and had no prior experience as to judge it by. As much as the nostalgia factor in the open cowl is hard to resist, I do have perpensities toward the Jabiru because of the shorter takeoff distance. The airstrip I will use is only around 1100 feet.

Thanks again for the comments, and keep writing the great articles. I find myself looking forward to them.

Thanks for the kind words, Richard.  The Legend/Texas Sport Cub has pretty good take-off and landing performance with either engine.  Either one should get you in and of 1100 feet easily. The weight of the O-200-A is not really a detriment to performance vs. the Jabiru so much as it is an impediment to complying with the 1320 gross weight limit.

You should not expect to see the empty weight of a Jabiru-powered Legend much below 850 pounds.  In fact, it will take a concerted effort to keep from going over that. With that empty weight and full fuel you are already up against (or slightly over) the light sport weight limit with two normal sized people.

Once you have made the standard weight-saving decisions that would apply to any version of the Legend/Texas Sport Cub, the weight of the engine ends up being the one place where you can really make a big difference. That would tend to reinforce your inclination to go with the Jabiru much more than any performance difference.

While I do understand what you are saying, (I had to be the pilot in command when I flew in the Legend because he only had a sport pilot certificate) I don't need to worry just yet.  I currently hold an instrument rating. But at my age I don't know how long that will last. So, again thanks for the help. Looks like the Jabiru for sure. I would certainly be disappointed if I put a Continental in there and had to revert to a sport pilot certificate later.

I have 400 hrs in my Legend I bought in 2005. I also love it. I think they have sold more than 16 TX Sport kits so far, but I don't know how many are flying.

I think the "nose heavy" issue has more to do with lack of elevator trim authority than CG. The Legend has a stock J3 tail with jack screw trim. The PA18-95 from Piper is essentially the same airplane. Piper added an "assist spring" which loads the up elevator cable as you crank in nose up trim. You might want to consider this if building your own. Another solution is to use balanced elevators (Tri Pacer) instead of the J3 tail.

I weigh 200 IBS and have no trouble doing full stall landings when I'm by myself. It's just that with full nose up trim and power off, it glides at 70mph when you'd probably like it to glide at 55-60. This indicates to me that the elevator authority is there, it just needs more trim.

I use "robust" braking to land short on grass as long as the tail is down and have had no surprises. I think some people get in trouble using too much brake when the tail is up with poor technique. Watch some bush pilot flying videos when they land short. The tail is up, the elevators are up and the brakes are on with power keeping the tail from coming up too much Don't try this at home..

I think owning an RV and a Texas Sport has to be the best of both worlds!

Rich CFI-A, CFI-I

I am glad I waited to order the Cub...seems like I am finding out a lot of info that will be helpful before I go full bore at purchasing and building.

Rich, I am sure that if you knew anyone that has made these mods you would have said so. What I am wondering is there anyone out there who has. Sure would like to hear from them.

I am going to run this info by my (A&P/IA/RV Builder/Cub owner) friend and see what he thinks. It sounds plausible to me.

What engine do you have in the Cub?

Richard

Richard

I have the O-200A. I have a very early Legend. The prop I have is a metal 69/48 which is all that was avaiable at the time. They now have many more and lighter choices.

I don't know if anyone has added an assist spring to a TX Sport. The Legend cannot have it unless the factory approves it, unlike the Experimental version. There has been much discussion about assist springs on standard Pipers on J3-cub.com and Supercub.org over the years.

As far as balanced elevators go, Darin Hart who is the head guy at Legend told me he'd like to try them. I don't know if he has yet. When the time comes you should talk to him or Kurt at Texas Sport. They are very knowledgable about Piper Cubs as well as there own products.

The interesting thing about the assist spring is you will find people who say it is not needed and others who love it. For me, it's not a big deal.

Rich

Just a note about pilot in command (PIC).  If a private pilot flying with sport pilot privileges or a sport pilot invites you to fly with him in his aircraft, he is the pilot in command and you are just a passenger despite you having more advanced privileges.  Most pilots with more advanced privileges cannot be PIC of a Legend Cub because they are not tailwheel legal (FAR 61.13(i) or not tailwheel current (FAR 61.57(a).

Richard, are you tailwheel legal and current?

Good point Jerry!  Just never really thought about it! You are exactly right because I am not tailwheel legal. The point I was trying to make was that if me and my friend exceeded the Light Sport weight, I assumed the pilot in command would revert to the pilot with advanced privileges. My mistake!

I hope my friend doesn't see this and get upset, because I really enjoyed flying with him and hope to do so again.

Richard

Richard,

With a SLSA aircraft such as the Legend Cub, no pilot can legally exceed the 1320 lbs gross weight.  Any pilot is expected to manage fuel, pilot and passenger weights to not exceed this limit.

The Texas Sport kit which is the same as the Legend Cub can be certified as amateur-built at 1600 lbs gross.  The plane is strong enough for this weight.  If the kit is certified to 1320 lbs, then it can be flown by a sport pilot.  If the kit is certified to 1600 lbs gross, then it's gross weight can never be lowered to allow flying by a sport pilot.  This is a critical decision to be made when certifying the amateur-built aircraft.

Thanks for this info. This is all new to me. Doesn't make much sense not to be able to lower the same aircraft from 1600 to 1320, but it is what it is.

This really is a critical decision. From what I have heard from you and Dave Prizio, you are close, or at gross weight with two people and full fuel with the LSA. I had visions of loading as much camping gear as possible, a friend, and heading cross country for whatever. I am sure that means the LSA is out.  Also, if I understand you correctly, I must build the Texas Sport kit in order to be able to certify it to 1600 lbs. I had considered purchasing a new or used Legend Cub. Looks like that may no longer be an option either. 

Thanks to everyone so far, this forum is turning out to be a really good source for making sounder decisions on purchasing, building, and modifying an aircraft.

Thanks again Jerry