Finish paints on fabric

Jim,

I'll try to answer any questions about the latex plan.  Right now its just about a month old and still in my shop, so I can't be very helpful, and I won't ever be helpful about the chemistry.

Would you please check my question about tank coatings.  I'm ready to put it on, but I want to think about it a while longer. 

 Thanks Al

The Stewarts Products thread had digressed into Latex and fabric discussions.  I placed a note to move to this thread leaving the Stewarts discussion specific.

A few questrions came up there 

Generic fabric:  I believe our unshrunk polyester comes from only one or two mills.  I have ordered 1 yard samples from each of the suppliers and they are identicial in the UL spec.   The price difference is 2:1 between generic vs. labled and 3:1 for certified vs generic. 

Latex;  I have a test panel on the roof since spring of 2006.  It is based at the 1.7 oz fabric,  one section is bare, another has 1 cross coat of black, another section has 2 x coats off black another section has 1 x coat of white (my finish color) over the single undercoat of black and  the double undercoat. Another section has 3 x coats of white only.   I am using the new Bher Ultra paints.  Other than the expected dirt that washes off easily it's not a problem.  I hav a small test patch with Aerospace protectant 303 ( UV inhibitor) over the bare fabric and a section of top coat.   All looks great.  I live in Sacramento and we have our share of heat and sun. 

MY vision - since my covering/finish  will be 1/10 the cost of a Polyfiber one and lightrer as well.  I will do a recover in 10 years.  I am more likily to cut ino the plane for inspection if I suspect a problem as it's not a big deal.   I have a wooden plane and I want to see what's happening under the fabric in 10 years or less any way..  I get to redesign the finish at that time as well. 

OOPS !  Didn't get to spell check before posting......    try again......

The Stewarts Products thread had digressed into Latex and fabric discussions.  I placed a note to move to this thread leaving the Stewarts discussion specific.

A few questions came up there 

Generic fabric:  I believe our unshrunk polyester comes from only one or two mills.  I have ordered 1 yard samples from each of the suppliers and they are identical in the UL spec.   The price difference is 2:1 between generic vs. labeled and 3:1 for certified vs generic. 

Latex;  I have a test panel on the roof since spring of 2006.  It is based at the 1.7 oz fabric,  one section is bare, another has 1 cross coat of black, another section has 2 x coats off black another section has 1 x coat of white (my finish color) over the single undercoat of black and  the double undercoat. Another section has 3 x coats of white only.   I am using the new Bher Ultra paints.  Other than the expected dirt that washes off easily it's not a problem.  I have a small test patch with Aerospace protectant 303 ( UV inhibitor) over the bare fabric and a section of top coat.   All looks great.  I live in Sacramento and we have our share of heat and sun. 

MY vision - since my covering/finish will be 1/10 the cost of a Polyfiber one and lighter as well.  I will do a recover in 10 years.  I am more likely to cut in to the plane for inspection if I suspect a problem as it's not a big deal.   I have a wooden plane and I want to see what's happening under the fabric in 10 years or less any way..  I get to redesign the finish at that time as well. 

 Hi Jim,  you've right,  it's probably better to have a specific thread about this subject....  Thanks for the infos, as those from Al and Corey they are pretty useful......  If I was interested to order some fabric from those mills, is it possible to do it ?? can I find them on the web ??

Those infos are exactly was I was looking for........

Thanks,

Jean

Jean,

To answer your question from the other thread...

I purchased my generic from Aircraft Spruce back in 2004 for $3.90 a yard. Not sure what it is now, but still half price of the "certified" Dacron. As Jim said, comes from the same mill. The BIGgest difference is the certification stamp on the fabric. The other is, you will find blems and imperfections with the generic, but it doesn't really affect durability, just cosmetics.

You asked another question about what weight of fabric to use?

It really has more to do with speed and environment than it does weight of the aircraft. The PolyFiber book says you can use the light stuff up to 160 mph. Use the medium for any type certificated aircraft or faster than 160 mph. Use the really heavy stuff for salt water, bush flying, float planes, and aerobatics.

My airplane has the main gear directly under the lower wing. No rock guards. So I just doubled up the 1.8 about two feet either side of the wheel. Gets wet and muddy, but no problem with debris. I fly out of a turf strip.

And to Jim,

I get a kick out of how many times I hear people doing the test patches. I've NEVER heard a one of them say latex doesn't work when applied smartly. It won't ever look like Aerothane, but so what. I still had dead grass around my airplane at Oshkosh. And I do agree, for the cost, hey, I'll recover in 10 years instead of 25, and still be way ahead. $6000 to cover an ultralight? GEESH! Oh, yeah. I did the patches too. Just had to be sure. LOL 8^)

Hi Corey,   the aircraft was bought by one of my friend , but as he's not really manual I'll do the recovering job.... (and I'll fly the aircraft as often as I want).....

He wanted to begin with a single place ultralight. I've found a kitten at a pretty good price. We want to learn(about building/recovering) at a low cost, and then he wants to buy a bigger one in a next  years...   So it as to be a safe one to fly, cosmetic isn't a priority even if we'll work go get the best result possible....

Before flying a two places aircraft with my girlfriend, I want to fly many hours with that kitten..... So to make it a short story, as we'll be two guys who will fly it,(and that my friend don't have any experience flying aircraft) we don't want to spend extra for the recovering, so latex paint should be ok..... 

My question about the fabirc was, we'll take-off / land in grass field,  ribs of the kitten are in wood so... I don't want to break those ribs heating fabric at 350 with med fabric, but are ligth fabric is ok to land in those sometime rough fields ?? 

Speed of the kitten is between 55  and 100 knots for the faster , so speed isn't a fact.....

About generic dacron, will it look (after painting) an ok finish ??  I'll probably go with ceconite non certified....

Btw, those  info are really useful...... for me and I guess for many others.........  As we're  on an EAA board, I think we don't find enough of those infos............

Thanks again

Jean

Jim

I painted the wings and fiberglass of my Challelnger with white latex for a dove grey first coat. It has been in service

since july 2008.

I believe that latex will provide protection of fabric and numerous years of protection. The latex I used was sherwin williams highest quality latex paint gloss finish. To paint a challenger I would assume a cost of paint less than $120.00 for the paint.

If you use a high quality aircraft paint  you can expect around $1600.00 and probably no longer service plus specialized equipment must be used due to fumes etc.

Most planes are hangered and have more protection from the elements then we do.

The nice thing about it is the decision is yours.

Bill

Jim:

 What wooden airplane you have?

William

Can I ask you  the number of paint coats and the delay beween each of them   ??  Was it paint on light weight faric, and if so what's the final result  ??

Thanks,

Jean

It's a Fisher FP-202.  with considerable mods. Still in the build.

Jean specific to your q on buying from mills.  Actually getting direct from the mills is unlikely as they work in huge numbers only.  I bought the same weight fabric from all the suppliers with different names.  ie Ceconite, and generic from AS.  All look feel and thread count the same.