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Anyone with "Daphne" experience?

Posted By:
Jerry Crossland
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#1 Posted: 3/13/2010 09:44:26

I jut bought a Daphne and my ferry pilot (ATP, cropduster pilot, couple thousand hours of tailwheel time) says the airplane has roll control issues, particularly during landing with anything over a 8 to 10 knot crosswind.  The airplane will simply "run out" of aileron with any higher crosswind.

Does anyone here have any experience flying these airplanes with any insight into this problem?



Joanne Palmer
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
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#2 Posted: 3/13/2010 11:09:36

Is it aileron or is it rudder?  The SD 1A picture I saw seemed to have a rather small vertical stabilizer and rudder. 



Adam Smith
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#3 Posted: 3/13/2010 11:41:49

I just searched the Sport Aviation archive.  Couldn't find too much on the Daphne, but you might find the attached article (from December 1966) useful.



Files Attachment(s):
1966_12_03.pdf (1116004 bytes)
Lincoln Ross
53
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5
#4 Posted: 3/13/2010 13:05:55

Can't offer you Daphne experience, unfortunately. However, the article you linked to says there are full span ailerons which may be set up as flaperons. Are they set up that way? RC aircraft I've had respond poorly to ailerons if they are drooped like that and flying slowly. The rudder still works in that condition, though. So it might be better not to lower them. I realize that I haven't flown anything like a Daphne, but the mention of flaperons in the article jumped out at me.  Plus I've read plenty of articles mentioning use of vortex generators stuck on to improve aileron effectiveness. I think Wainfan has a discussion of this in his Wind Tunnel column sometime in the last several years, with suggestions about how high to make them and how far apart. They're really simple, OTOH someone here may be able to tell you how to deal without altering the airplane.

 

Daphne is kind of an interesting aircraft, btw.



Ron Wanttaja
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#5 Posted: 3/13/2010 17:20:29
Jerry Crossland wrote:

 

I jut bought a Daphne and my ferry pilot (ATP, cropduster pilot, couple thousand hours of tailwheel time) says the airplane has roll control issues, particularly during landing with anything over a 8 to 10 knot crosswind.  The airplane will simply "run out" of aileron with any higher crosswind.

Does anyone here have any experience flying these airplanes with any insight into this problem?

Looks a lot like a Wittman Tailwind.  You might try the Tailwind Forum  on Yahoo.  Their description says, "For discussion and exchange of information related to the Wittman Tailwind, Nesmith Cougar, and similar aircraft, like the Buttercup, Big X, Daphne, Fourrunner and O&O..."



Ron Wanttaja
Jerry Crossland
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2
#6 Posted: 3/14/2010 10:36:45

Thanks gentlemen for all of your replies.  This particular airplane was built by Tim Yanc himself as his personal airplane in 1981.  The original design goal of the design was to compete in the Pazmany efficiency contest at Oskosh during the 60s and early 70s.  From what I gather, the basic idea was to design an airplane with the widest speed range.  To do that he designed a wing with a wide chord (63") and very effective flaps.  As a result the ailerons are about 24" long and about 8" deep.  The flaps on the other hand are about two and a half to three times that long.  My friend who flew the airplane said lowering the flaps actually lowered the stall speed by about 15 to20 mph  (from 60 with the flaps up to somewhere between 40 and 45 with the flaps down.)...all of which makes sense considering the design criteria of the airplane. 

I did read the Dec 1965 article and noticed that on that particular airplane he did in fact have full span ailerons.  Some suggestions that I have had have included putting spades on the ailerons which may slightly enlarge the effective area of the ailerons to making the ailerons full span.  I did not think of the vortex generators which may be a good idea since my friend made one comment that  "it seemed that the ailerons seemed to lose any additional effectiveness once they were displaced more than half way."

Fortunately, the airplane is safely tucked away in a private hangar in Arkansas until I can come take the wings off and truck it home to make the necessary mods.

 Thanks Ron, I will check out the Tailwind forum also.  Again, thank all of you for your replies.  I'll let you know how things are progressing.

 Jerry Crossland



Frank Gaggia
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#7 Posted: 3/18/2010 19:46:08

Jerry,

I, too, had been wanting to purchase a Daphne, so I'm sorry to hear they have poor aileron control.  A simple fix might be just to add a gap seal, if it doesn't already have one.  Of course, be sure to check that you're getting the aileron travel called for on the plans for starters!

Frank



Warren Knighton
Homebuilder or Craftsman
1
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1
#8 Posted: 3/18/2010 21:46:26
Hi Jerry,   

 

I own a Daphne SD-1A that was built in 1980 by Don Coonrod in N California.  I have owned this plane since beginning of 2005.  It has a Cont 0-200, with flaps & ailerons, I have about 300 hour flying the Daphne and it has no bad habits and have landed in very strong cross winds on trips from Arizona to Wiscnsin. You can E-mail me for any questions you might have.

This is a great Airplane from Art Szaraz.  

Warren , knighton@tabletoptelephone.com

 


 



Jerry Crossland
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#9 Posted: 3/20/2010 08:39:09

Thanks Warren.  I sent you an e-mail.

Jerry



Jerry Crossland
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#10 Posted: 4/3/2010 18:02:55

Just wanted to let everyone know who responded to my initial post that I flew the airplane from Arkansas to Pennsylvania over the past two days.  To sum it up, the Daphne flies a lot like a Champ (it's definitely a "rudder" airplane) only a little faster.  The roll rate was more than adequate and I found the airplane handled even a 10 to 15 knot crosswind without too much problem.  Thanks for all of your replies, especially to the "Daphne" guys who gave me the confidence to fly this thing home.

Jerry Crossland



Joe Boyle
Homebuilder or Craftsman
1
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0
#11 Posted: 4/10/2010 23:03:26

I have owned Daphne N53932 since 1992 and have flown it for about 850 hours.  It has plenty of aileron authority at all speeds even down to approximately 35 mph indicated.  I have landed it in 15 to 20 mph 90 degree crosswinds just by cross controlling it without incident.  I added a set of struts to control rear deflection of the gear resulting in toe out conditions when landing loads or breaking caused the gear to deflect back.  The Daphne is one of the most docile planes I have ever flown.

It is a handful to land only because of the tapered bar stock gear legs.  I have considered and am still considering a conversion to a Grove 1 piece gear leg.  I would have done it before now but it is an expensive proposition.

I have had it in and out of an 800 ft grass strip on several occasions necessitating very low airspeeds on final and have not experienced seriously degraded aileron, rudder or elevator control.

Joe Boyle