EAAAirVenture OshkoshShopJoin
1  2  Next Page >

Homebuilt concept...cute or homely?

Posted By:
Matthew Long
Homebuilder or Craftsman
122
Posts
12
#1 Posted: 5/5/2010 18:06:04 Modified: 5/5/2010 18:09:33

I have in the back of my mind and in some scribbles and sketches a conceptual design for  twin-tail, shoulder-wing homebuilt within light sport parameters, likely with an Aerovee or similar VW engine.

Here is one inspiration, the Nord NC-854S (link takes you to pics of many including a nice British-registered example G-BJEL)

Another inspiration is the Praga (also Hillson) Air Baby, such as those on this British photo site and on this Russian site E.114 Легкий многоцелевой самолет (scroll down for pics).  A twin-tail version of the Air Baby (tailwheel or tri-gear) would be a good description of what I have in mind.

Tell me honestly, would any of you be interested in a plane like this?



 

 

 



******* Matthew Long www.cluttonfred.info
Todd Stovall
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
49
Posts
7
#2 Posted: 5/6/2010 07:27:06

Matt,

Why the twin tail?  Not knocking the idea, just curious as it would seem to me (a non-engineer mouth breather type) that a single tail would be lighter and easier to design/build.

 

Todd



RV-10 N728TT (reserved), Emp/Tailcone & Wings done, working on the Fuse. Location: Dumfries, VA (suburb of DC), EAA Ch 186
Bob Seevers
50
Posts
10
#3 Posted: 5/6/2010 08:52:26

Looks like a Cygnet mated with an Ercoupe.



Matthew Long
Homebuilder or Craftsman
122
Posts
12
#4 Posted: 5/6/2010 13:40:31

Well, there are pros and cons to be sure.  Twin tails improve the stab and elevator effetiveness for a given span (endplate effect), produce less torque (really slipstream effect) on take off, reduce torsion on the rear fuselage, can be more effective in low-speed, low-power situations like landing and can help with spin resistance.  On the other hand they have to be bigger in total area (not in the slipstream) and produce more drag (bigger area and two more vortices).  I believe the weight penalty would be minimal but I don't have any numbers to prove it.  In fact, the real reason is because I like the way it looks.  ;-)



******* Matthew Long www.cluttonfred.info
Jay Jacobs
Homebuilder or Craftsman
16
Posts
2
#5 Posted: 5/8/2010 08:54:38 Modified: 5/8/2010 08:56:52


The shoulder wing twin tail is a nice looking plane. The Russian example is rather ugly.

 

 

 

 

 



David Deweese
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
61
Posts
21
#6 Posted: 5/8/2010 12:51:18

Looks interesting to me, though I'm amused by anything that makes a design stand out.

Such birds are reminiscent of any number of WW-II bombers and inter-war passenger planes. Given a clever, period livery or military paint scheme you might have people asking how old your new plane is.



Matthew Long
Homebuilder or Craftsman
122
Posts
12
#7 Posted: 5/10/2010 17:06:21

Hmm, what are some other conventional, tractor monoplanes with a twin tail (not twin boom, just the twin tail)?  Off the top of my head I can think of...

  • Max Holste Broussard (France)
  • Nord NC.850 series (France)
  • Erco Ercoupe and derivatives (USA)
  • Minicoupe homebuilt (USA)
  • Chrislea Super Ace (UK)

Anyone know of any more?


 



******* Matthew Long www.cluttonfred.info
Ron Wanttaja
246
Posts
98
#8 Posted: 5/10/2010 22:19:00
Matthew Long wrote:

 

Hmm, what are some other conventional, tractor monoplanes with a twin tail (not twin boom, just the twin tail)?  Off the top of my head I can think of...

 

  • Max Holste Broussard (France)
  • Nord NC.850 series (France)
  • Erco Ercoupe and derivatives (USA)
  • Minicoupe homebuilt (USA)
  • Chrislea Super Ace (UK)

Anyone know of any more?

 Well, there's one a' these, but it might not be the best example....

 
ohka.jpg

Though, I guess, technically, it ain't a tractor....
pilot_beer.jpg



Ron Wanttaja
Matthew Long
Homebuilder or Craftsman
122
Posts
12
#9 Posted: 5/11/2010 03:12:52

Not exactly what I had in mind--though somehow it reminds me of a BD-5.  ;-)

If anyone ever marketed a small ducted fan for lightplane use--say a Rotax 503 and a composite turbine less than one meter in diamter--it would make for some neat little aircraft.  I could see such a plane looking not unlike one of the tandem two-seat Ohka kamikaze trainers but with a fan shroud behind the horizontal tail, longer wings and, ahem, landing gear.



******* Matthew Long www.cluttonfred.info
Michael Zenner
Homebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
12
Posts
5
#10 Posted: 5/11/2010 08:39:04

Matt,

I personally like the twin tail idea. Yes it might weight a little more but for some reason it reminds me of a P-38, and who doesn't love the P-38. I'm not really a fan of the boxy looking fuselage, It might be because everything now days are streamlined. I believe the twin tail is a good idea.

 

Michael Zenner



Lyman Hatz
27
Posts
12
#11 Posted: 5/11/2010 10:29:32 Modified: 5/11/2010 10:31:17


General Skyfarer.jpgThe General Skyfarer.

 

Lyman

 



Matthew Long
Homebuilder or Craftsman
122
Posts
12
#12 Posted: 5/11/2010 11:10:40

Ah, I should have remembered that one, thanks.  The grandfather of the Ercoupe, IIRC.  I think those fins are fixed.



******* Matthew Long www.cluttonfred.info
Ron Wanttaja
246
Posts
98
#13 Posted: 5/12/2010 00:33:25

Another possibility would to take a tried-and-true homebuilt design like the (good ol') Fly Baby and modify it into a twin-tail design:


twin_tail.jpg

You'd need to build a cantilever horizontal stabilizer and/or add a set of V-struts underneath to make up for the elimination of the tail brace wires.  Probably not that big of a deal...

 



Ron Wanttaja
Matthew Long
Homebuilder or Craftsman
122
Posts
12
#14 Posted: 5/12/2010 07:12:25 Modified: 5/12/2010 12:30:38

 Of course, Ron would have to make this into a Fly Baby thread!  Love the Fly Baby, but I am really more of a Volksplane kind of guy--so ugly and utilitarian it's cute.  Besides, if I go with a single-seater it really ought to be a FRED.  (My site:  www.cluttonfred.info).

I would want my design to lift two people within European microlight rules (450kg MTOW for a two-seater) so we're talking about something more comparable to a Sky Ranger or Rand-Kar Hanuman.  Both are two-seat, Rotax 912-powered aluminum tube/sewn dacron envelope microlights.

 



******* Matthew Long www.cluttonfred.info
Patrick Panzera
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or CraftsmanUltralight EnthusiastAirVenture Volunteer
58
Posts
23
#15 Posted: 5/13/2010 17:37:05

I fell in love with the Anderson Greenwood AG-14 when I was at SnF last month.





Patrick Panzera
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or CraftsmanUltralight EnthusiastAirVenture Volunteer
58
Posts
23
#16 Posted: 5/13/2010 17:41:54

Sorry, I thought I had uploaded a photo and placed a hyperlink but I guess I did it wrong...

I'll try again.

 

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=greenwood%20ag-14&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi


 




Files Attachment(s):
SnF2010 087.jpg (2011200 bytes)
Matthew Long
Homebuilder or Craftsman
122
Posts
12
#17 Posted: 5/13/2010 18:24:09

 Maybe you should get your own...here's one for sale, it appears!  FOR SALE Anderson Greenwood AG-14 s/n 2 

 


It certainly is too bad that no one is making is making something like the AG-14 anymore.  A similar design that I have always liked is the SIPA Minijet.  I have often thought that a simple pusher design styled like a fixed-gear, pusher prop version of the Minijet would be great fun.  The problem, of course, is maintaining CG within limits in a light pusher, especially if the seats are side my side.

 



******* Matthew Long www.cluttonfred.info
Patrick Panzera
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or CraftsmanUltralight EnthusiastAirVenture Volunteer
58
Posts
23
#18 Posted: 5/13/2010 18:37:44
Matthew Long wrote:

 

 Maybe you should get your own...here's one for sale, it appears!  FOR SALE Anderson Greenwood AG-14 s/n 2 


"falling in love with" and owning are two differnet things. If it were not the case, I'm sure I'd own hundreds of aircraft, thousdands of cars, and at least two dozen wives. happy


It certainly is too bad that no one is making is making something like the AG-14 anymore.  A similar design that I have always liked is the SIPA Minijet.  I have often thought that a simple pusher design styled like a fixed-gear, pusher prop version of the Minijet would be great fun.  The problem, of course, is maintaining CG within limits in a light pusher, especially if the seats are side my side.

There's also the S-LSA Sadler Vampire


 

 

 



Ron Wanttaja
246
Posts
98
#19 Posted: 5/14/2010 00:23:05
Matthew Long wrote:

 

 Of course, Ron would have to make this into a Fly Baby thread! 

Matthew, I'm shocked, shocked, to think that you'd think I'd do that.

By the way, here's the same thing as a nosedragger.
pilot_beer.jpg

 
twin_tail2.jpg

Ron "Thread Pirate" Wanttaja

 



Ron Wanttaja
Lyman Hatz
27
Posts
12
#20 Posted: 5/14/2010 10:28:40

Ouch.  Ron, you should have quit after the first drawing.  IMHO!!

 

Lyman



1  2  Next Page >