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Ragwing Storch

Posted By:
David Riggs
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#1 Posted: 11/8/2010 23:02:13

Hi!

I am new to the group and full of questions.   Since learning that it might soon be within my means to build and fly an LSA, I  have decided that an STOL type would be ideal for the type of flying I want to do.

Would a Ragwing Storch qualify under this classification?  I had assumed that it would, then I read somewhere that such craft must have tricycle gear.  Is that right?

If so, is there another model that would have somewhere near the Ragwing's performance characteristics?  I would need to build from plans, unless I could find an abandoned project that someone would let go cheaply.

Thanks,

Dave



Frank Giger
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#2 Posted: 11/9/2010 00:52:49 Modified: 11/9/2010 00:56:53

The Ragwing Stork (scale replica of the Storch) from RagWing Aircraft Design falls within the LSA rules, based on what I see on their website.

Two seats (pilot and one passenger) - check.

Less than 1,320 pounds gross take off weight - check.

Max speed below 138 mph - check.

Stall speed below 51 mph - check (I'd say!  made it with 46 mph to spare)

Single engine, fixed prop, unpressurized cabin, daylight VFR only, yada yada.....check.

There is no requirement that an LSA be tricycle geared.  The commercial guys make them that way because they can't be ground looped and therefore are safer to land.

 

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf



David Riggs
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#3 Posted: 11/9/2010 16:19:42

Thanks, Frank!

I appreciate the link- it'll provide me with a few months of reading matter!

I guess the first thing to do is order the plans.   Has anyone here built one of these planes?   Any advice, warnings etc.?

Thanks much

Dave



Frank Giger
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#4 Posted: 11/9/2010 16:41:45

1) Find out where and when your local EAA chapter is meeting, and SEND AN EMAIL to whomever is in charge (or call them) of it a week or so before their next web-published meeting.  Nothing is more frustrating that showing up to a meeting that has been cancelled, moved, etc. and you miss out because it's at Fred's house to see his project's progress and get in a quick covering class.

2) Make a plan, both financial and time, on how you're going to pay for it and work on it.  Get ready to be flexible, but I found that the rudder to my Nieuport 11 only got started and built when I set a firm time to work on it, and put everyone on warning.  The rest of the kit got pushed back six months due to an unforseen financial obligation that magically fit the airplane fund at that point....sigh.  But that doesn't mean I didn't punt and buy a few gauges (I'll need them anyway!).

3) Ask to help someone build their airplane.  Nothing teaches like doing, and there is no better plane to learn on than somebody else's. 
tongueout 
    Besides, you're going to need help at some point....get to know folks who know folks.



Paul O'Dea
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#5 Posted: 11/11/2010 22:47:14

Dave-

 

You want to look at the Preceptor Aircraft Corp. Storch "STOL King"

 

similar numbers, and LSA approved

 

Paul

  



Michael Silvius
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#6 Posted: 11/12/2010 10:26:46

Dave:

 

Check out the Yahoo group on the Stork at:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ragwing_Stork/

 

Michael



Michael Silvius
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#7 Posted: 11/12/2010 10:32:13

a Subaru powerd RW Stork in New Zealand

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSiTNQgj_N8

 

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/wilsonnz/

 

Michael

 

 



Daniel Rask
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#8 Posted: 11/12/2010 14:42:34
Paul O'Dea wrote:

 

Dave-

 

You want to look at the Preceptor Aircraft Corp. Storch "STOL King"

 

similar numbers, and LSA approved

 

Paul

  

 Howdy-

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but the past few months have seen a disturbing number of complaints pile up against Preceptor and its current owner DuWayne Counts on the Homebuilt Aircraft forum . At least one person paid in full for a kit in early 2009 and has yet to receive any parts as of November 2010. Communication is reported to be extremely spotty, and I have experienced this myself. You would have to be prepared for your plans to be completely unsupported. Personally I've wiped the Preceptor designs from my list of potential aircraft

And now back to our regularly scheduled uplifting (!) programming....

 

Other LSA aircraft with STOL performance available plans-built include:

  • Zenith 701 and 750
  • Wittman Buttercup
  • a couple of Tiger Cub variants

Not quite STOL but close are the Christavia Mk I and II, J6C Karatoo, and Fisher Dakota Hawk.

The class of the Storch kit world is the Rotax 912S-powered Criquet Fi-156 Storch , covered in a recent (Sept.?) issue of Sport Aviation. Sadly no plans available, as it is a much more robust and powerful plane than the Roger Mann Ragwing Stork, which has been described as a STOL trainer with just enough useful load to carry a pilot and (smallish) passenger. -Dan



Paul O'Dea
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#9 Posted: 11/12/2010 19:24:56

Dan,

Good to know, thanks.

Damn shame, I liked that thing.



David Riggs
Homebuilder or Craftsman
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#10 Posted: 11/14/2010 14:54:04

Many thanks to everyone who replied!


I haven't been able to find the specs for the Christavia plane; does anyone know where I can find takeoff and landing roll, stall speed etc. for this plane?   

There are two main reasons I like the Stork, one being that it's made largely of wood and the other is that it has such a short roll.   This is a big deal since I am a woodworking pro and have very little metalworking ability.   Otherwise, I think I would build the Zenith.

But now I hear that it is not a good load carrier.   That could be a problem since I am well over 200# (overweight, I admit) and will never weigh in at much less than 200.   Safety is, of course, the primary concern and the STOL plane just seems like it would be inherently safer than other design types.   Am I wrong?




Frank Giger
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#11 Posted: 11/14/2010 23:41:55

I'd say that for the most part the only real safety difference between approved kit planes is how loose the nut behind the stick is.  And what said loose nut is comfortable with.

 

Some might say that a really slow stall speed tail dragger is infinately less safe than, say, a trike geared Kitfox.  They'd have a point, since one can't ground loop tricycle gear.  And then the heated argument begins about what is a "real" plane.



David Riggs
Homebuilder or Craftsman
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#12 Posted: 11/18/2010 13:52:38

OK, I've been searching and browsing until my eyes hurt and it seems most of the designs I like are built largely, if not totally, from metal.

Therefore, I need some info on working with tubing.   Is it best done electrically or with gas?   

Finally, does anyone know anything about Boeing Surplus Sales in Wichita?   I used the one in Seattle until I moved to MO a few years ago and it was great.   I've heard that the one in Wichita is much smaller.   

Dave



Dave Mikkelson
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#13 Posted: 11/19/2010 16:52:30 Modified: 11/19/2010 16:55:59

Yes, I too was sorry to see the situation with the perceptor SK.  Looks like he's got some serious troubles according to the yahoo group.  That's too bad.  I am buying a set of plans for it though... since I figuring on at least a partial scratch build.  If I do not decide on it, I'll sell them.  I've looked at the Ragwing Stork as well, since I'm excellent with wood too, but the design engineer in me (natural not by education) just didn't like a couple of things (like tension loads on brackets and sheer loads on through bolts that are not collared... just the wall thickness for contact area... just not good).

OK... the next question will likely raise an eyebrow or two.... but since I can AC stick weld well on the level... and have designed and built many heavy metal items over the years, I have to ask...  

Can one, and what is the penalties in weight and structural strength, for using square tube instead of round?  Can 4130 even be had in square tube?   It also lends itself to easier fitting with a cut off saw and grinder.

 

Well, sorry if I'm too ignorant yet to know an obvious to others answer... please be patient.

Thanks in advance,

 

Another Dave

 

 

 

 



Gary Van Meter
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#14 Posted: 12/4/2010 14:18:51

David:

I'm building a Ragwing Stork RW20 and it is very robust. It can be built in the 600 -650 pound range if you go with the lighter tandem version (RW-19), use a lightweight engine, stick to the plans and don't add extras.  If you are really careful it can be done under 500 pounds, but that's with no brakes, side windows, etc. and a 2 stroke.  I'm 6'2.5" and 220#, and Roger Mann is even more, so join the club.  Occasionally unfinished projects come up for sale. Roger has a video of the planes flying and they certainly perform at the low end of slow flight/extreme STOL.  They are rather draggy so top speed is not their virtue.  The speed record is in the 80's, with cruise in the 60's/70's depending on how clean you make it.

 

I suggest joining our Ragwing Stork listserve.  We have about 450 members with many builders.  So between builders and Roger you can get questions answered.

There is also a STOL King listserve.  I'm a member of that also and have the plans.  One just flew a few weeks ago and can be found on you tube.  The plans are more complete on the STOL King, but it is much more complicated and requires welding skills.  Currently you probably can only find STOL King plans used and the only support is from other builders.

If you are a good welder and can handle a complicated build the STOL King would be good.  If not, the RW-19 is the way to go and it is much cheaper to build.

 

Another possibility is the Just Highlander.  You can buy it with the welding already done.

Gary Van Meter

RW-20 builder



Kurt Fredrickson
Homebuilder or Craftsman
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#15 Posted: 12/13/2010 23:36:39

Howdy Dan, when you describe DuWayne's communication as extremely spotty you are being kind. About a year ago I ordered plans from him despite my doubts about the performance claims. He didn't hesitate to charge my credit card, quite some time went by and never received the plans. Would not reply to messages until I left him one stating that I was going to deny the charge on my credit card.  He was real quick to get in touch with me stating that he would rather issue me a refund instead of getting a charge back. Waited a few days and no credit showed up. Finally just contacted my credit card company and they removed the charges. The three times I talked to him on the phone was a very unprofessional and unpleasant experiences but it only cost me my time in the long run.



Roble Anderson
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#16 Posted: 3/14/2011 11:39:46

I built one give me a call on my cell phone   1-503-791-8466   I can tell you a lot about it.       Roble



Roble