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purchasing an aircraft for PPL training

Posted By:
John Mazzolini
3
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#1 Posted: 12/7/2009 18:15:02

Hello All


I was wondering what everyone thoughts were on purchasing an aircraft for use in acquiring a Private Pilot License, and building some hours. 


I have seen articles that say some of the common training aircraft like the older C-s or C-120-140 along with older Piper Colts , Taylorcraft, Luscombe etc etc are available in upper teens in price?? Good flyable aircraft


 I would think those aircraft have depriciated as far as they will ever go....and will be worth about the same, if not a little more in year or 2 when Its time to upgrade, the economy improves etc.


To me it would make sense to have 2 or 3-4 student pilots or existing pilots looking for inexpensive flying, partner up on something like this.

This makes sense to me...so what am I missing in this scenario??


Is there a web site were studenst and pilots look for partner/owners in their area?


any info and insights would be greatly appreciated


thanks

John



Adam Smith
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
538
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381
#2 Posted: 12/7/2009 23:01:17

John, I like the way you're thinking.   I was able to learn to fly by buying a one-fifth share in a Piper L-4 and It certainly was a great way to get some cheap flying.

The Aircraft Partnership Association was formed recently to try and connect people that want to share aircraft ownership.  I don't know how successful they are but their website is http://theapa.com/apaweb/

Another time-tested way of finding partners is to place ads on the noticeboard in your local FBO. 

We are doing an article for the February edition of EAA Sport Aviation magazine on groups and partnerships, this will contain more information on this subject.

Most of the aircraft on your list are taildraggers.  Compared to nosegear airplanes, you might find these more expensive to insure for low time, entry level pilots.  

Don't forget the Cessna 150/152 series or the Piper Cherokee 140.   Between them these have probably trained more pilots than any aircraft in history and can be affordable hours-builders.   You can certainly pick up plenty of 150s in the upper teens, and the Cherokees start at about 20K.



John Mazzolini
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#3 Posted: 12/8/2009 07:34:49

Hello Adam

 

thanks for the reply and the web site link. I look forward to reading the upcoming article. I will check out the website and follow up at some local FBO's

 

thanks

 

John



Jerry Rosie
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
482
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#4 Posted: 12/8/2009 08:09:12

Hi John -

One other advantage of going this route is that you get some experience in what you like or dislike about an airplane and what you will be looking for when you take the plunge to buying your own airplane.  It is less expensive to try one out at 1/5 or 1/4 the cost rather than buying an airplane and then finding out, from experience, that you would rather have a low wing than a high wing, for example.  This also suggests that flying in a number of different airplanes, before deciding on which one you would like to own, is a good idea.



Cheers, Jerry NC22375 out of 07N
Bob Mackey
Vintage Aircraft Association MemberWarbirds of America Member
15
Posts
4
#5 Posted: 12/8/2009 16:56:19

Hi John!

What you are thinking about should be doable but you need to also think about insurability.  I recommend you find yourself an Instructor who can help you select the right airplane and you can also make sure the Instructor is someone you are comfortable with.  Get the Instructor's qualifications because you are going to need this when you go after airplane insurance.  If you go after airplane insurance without he Instructor's qualifications the insurance companies will either refuse to offer insurance or they will quote high.  In either situation it's not good.

Shop for a good instructor while you are considering the airplane and how many people (shares) there will be.  Give me a call I'll be happy for lend a hand.  (877) 230-3252

Bob



Bob Mackey Falcon Insurance (EAA Aircraft Insurance Plan
Chris Anderson
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerAirVenture Volunteer
11
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1
#6 Posted: 12/9/2009 19:49:23

John,

 

I suggest making a list of what you will want to do with the airplane.  You mentioned getting your PPL, but what about beyond that.  Do you want to fly with a friend or two, take a cross country or what ever.  What equipment will the airplane need?  Take getting your PPL for example.  If you wanted to do all your training and checkride in your aircraft you will need to have the equipment to demonstrate basic attitude instrument flying as well as basic radio navigation.  Help from a good flight instructor will answer most question.

The purchase price is only a small item as far as expenses go.  There's insurance, hanger or tie-down fees, the annual inspection, fuel, oil, parts.  The list can go on.  When you find an airplane that fits your needs, talk with other owners of the same make and model and join an owners group.  You'll learn all sorts of good information.

 

I've seen good and bad partnerships.  Choose your partners carefully.  There are a couple of good books on airplane partnerships.  I'm sure if you google it, you find some good reading.

 

Good luck!



James Morrison
Homebuilder or Craftsman
1
Post
1
#7 Posted: 12/10/2009 20:09:55

hi John a partnership is surley a money saving venture if done right when I was a new pilot I enter into such a partnership and capitalizing on this my partner got his licence at quite a cost savings, but one point that most are missing should be the first to consider is the school you wish to learn at. I say this because unless the instructors are familure with and checked out in they will not train you in that plane, I have been flying for the passed few years a Piper Tri Pacer it is a great flyih little plane with a fare size gross weight, but non of the instructors around my airport are current in them, the majority are all young instructors that havn't seen the inside of anything but a cesna 152, they can't even say 150. it will be cheaper to certainly to own your own plane but get the one to match your flying school even if you carry a morgage and sell it latter, there will be plenty of time to try different types and choose the one you liike the best, there will always be people around to partner with no matter what you want to do --- good luck,,,,JIM



John Mazzolini
3
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0
#8 Posted: 12/11/2009 08:03:58

Thank you all for the good sound advice.

 

Is there an "aircraft partnership for Dummies" guidelines that seem to work the best?  I expect that I will find opportunities buy into existing partnerships..... The other choice is purchasing an airplane and looking for partners.

 

Those of you that have been involved in partnerships....what is a workable number?....3-4 in my mind seems like the way to go?

 

what are the pitfalls that I should look ahead to with buying into an existing group? 

 

The obvious expenses of owning an airplane...hanger/tie down, insurance, annual inspection, funds to be set aside for maintenance. At the time of the purchase of the aircraft...how many hours left before a major maintenance item is needed and of course things break on older equipment which must be prepared for...what else am I missing?

 

again thanks for the input and help

 

John



Adam Smith
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
538
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#9 Posted: 12/11/2009 21:17:02

There are a couple of books on the subject of aircraft groups. 

Keeping the Peace in Partnerships: A Guide to Aircraft Co-Ownership by Bruce W. Luedeman,  is pretty good, but it may be out of print... we used to sell it in the EAA store but it's not there now and I can't find it online either.   Here's another (I haven't read it):  http://www.amazon.com/AIRCRAFT-PARTNERSHIP-Geza-Szurovy/dp/0070633479

From my own experience the golden rule  is to be very careful in your choice of partner(s).   The group needs to have compatible people / aviation philosophies / standards / flying habits, etc

If the chemistry is right groups can work really well - in my own case I joined a group and found my future wife there!

Group sizes of 2 to 5 are the most common.   A group of 2 gives a big benefit - halving your flying costs.   Every increase in group size from there will spread the financial load even further, but maybe increase your risk of problems. 

Above 5 people in the group and the insurance companies seems to start viewing it as a flying club, and the pricing goes a lot higher.