Has "Sport Pilot" Worked?

I tried to edit my post above, after I did a little more research, and I can't get the edited version to post. 

I can fly a lot better than I can work a computer, and it is a LOT MORE FUN.

I believe it is working in my area. I have 9 active students right now that either train in my flightstar or have their own aircraft. A few started Private years ago and started back because of the less hours or liked the idea of not having to mess with the medical. In two years time I have in my part time have had over 30 sudents.

Aaron

CFI-SP, AGI

The AOPA magazine, "Pilot" had some statistics on how many sport Pilot Certificates have been issued, but, for the life of me, I can't remember the number, and can't lay my hands on the issue that published it.  Maybe you could get some stats from either AOPA or the FAA websites.

The biggest, supposed, savings come with the fewer minimum hours required to qualify for the certificate.  Not that most students are ready in the minimum to qualify hours anyway.  The big differences in LSA and PPL are that LSA training includes no night, no sim instrument and no radio requirements.  The Knowledge exam is only 40 questions and very few questions dealing with navigation - mostly chart reading.

We have two LSA instructors at 07N and both are as busy as they want to be.  I guess that would seem to indicate that as far as increasing the interest in flight training, it is working.

You can't get a sport pilot certificate in a 172.  You can receive some instruction in a 172 from a CFI (not a light-sport instructor) and count it towards your sport pilot certificate, but you will have to do your checkride in a light sport aircraft.  There is some subject areas not required for a sport pilot certificate - 10% or so of the subject areas is probably about right. To me, I see two areas of concern.  For one, I find many pilots and even instructors don't know the rules.  The regular CFI's aren't up to speed on the specifics of the sport pilot rules as far as privileges and limitations go.  One sport pilot instructor I am aware of in our area is somewhat lacking in knowledge about airspace and regulations - probably the fault of his instructor and examiner more so than the regulation.  (To me, if you're an instructor, you'd best have airspace down pat, and understand all the privileges and limitations of your certificate)

The other area of concern is the available aircraft.  We have a person trying to get a sport pilot training operation going in our area.  He chose the only vintage tricycle gear light-sport eligible aircraft I know of - the Ercoupe.  I have very fond memories of the Ercoupe, as I grew up helping my grandpa restore one, and I loved flying with him.  I haven't been in an Ercoupe since I was a teenager.  I had the chance to fly in one the other day and I had an unpleasant surprise.  I am an average sized male, and was flying with another average sized male, and the accomodations made a Cessna 150 seem roomy.  I just don't think the Ercoupe will be practical for a large-scale training operation (let alone a tailwheel aircraft - good luck getting insurance for flight training in that!)  

I like what I see in the new light-sport market, but the price will scare many people away.  It's tough to pay 125k for basically a revamped Cessna 150 and rent it for less than $100 an hour.  I think there will be a place for the new LSA's, but it probably won't be at every small county airport.  I'd love to see the gross weight increased for Sport Pilot.  I believe it would result in a much more robust new aircraft, and would allow the old Cessna and Piper 2 seat trainers to fly under the new rule, but it would likely hurt the new aircraft sales.  

My advice is, if a person wants to fly cheap, go get your medical (they will waive just about any medical condition now if you jump through the hoops), buy an old, well maintained 150 or 152 for 15k or so, and get your Private certificate.  If you want to be flying a new airplane with fancy glass cockpit, the new LSA's are really an interesting option, but I don't think you'll save any money that way.  For me, I want a 4 place aircraft and IFR capabilities, so I don't think the sport pilot certificate would ever have appealed to me.  That being said, back when I got my private certificate in 2002 it wasn't an option anyhow.          

I now can sit in the left seat of a LSA because of the Sport Pilot ticket. My logbook has me starting 5-10-1973 and passing my check ride 5-10-2009, 36 years to the day. If it was not for the SP I would only fly in simulators. How many of us dreampt but do to his or her life had to sit on the other side of the fence. I get the biggest thrill every time I go to the airport and know that I can get into a LSA and fly.  Is SP worth it, YES. Even if I am the only one who got a SP ticket, it's worrth it. How many of us who have higher ratings fear the next medical because of our age or rules etc. just go back to their roots, J3 Cubs etc. to keep their loving of leaving the earth and seeing it from a different piont of veiw and thanking the powers that be for making this possible.

JOHN

Is Light Sport working? In my flight training operation the answer is an unqualified "yes". 60% of my training revenue is for Light Sport certificate and probably 80% of that is from people that would not be flying or getting back into flying if light sport didn't exist. We are flying a Jabiru J170 and an unanticipated benefit of the program is that we can train heavy (330lbs is heaviest so far) and tall (currently have a 6'5" student) people. If the hurdle is whether Light Sport is bringing in new money and people who otherwise would not be flying- no question that it is "working".

NO. Light Sport Certificate: Hoped for: 20K, expected min.: 10K, est. current issued 3600.

Specifics of LSC req. are readily available, even in summary form. 

"The next area of savings would be to get the sport license in an LSA." NO -  as you correctly surmise, a lot of LSA training can be done in typical Cessna 150/152 which are  cheaper than most reliable LSAs. A top REMOS can go for $175K+. The good ones all start at $125K. How much is a used school Cessna 150? Training with a "Sport Pilot" only CFI is avoided because is not credited to PPC. It may be cheaper if training is provided in some legacy Certified a/c.Your check out is done in an LSA and your SPC is issued with that specific LSA listed. On PPL normally, you are given rating of SEL (any). SPC requires you be endorsed for each particular LSA you intent to fly. "Logbook endorsement will be provided for category, class, make and model."

Most schools would not dream of putting students and their CFIs in most LSAs out there, no matter how peculiarly good reviews LAMA associates give to the products of their members. Insurance cos keep the accident data close guarded, but if you find one exec. willing to talk, you might be very surprised. How is this rating going to be affected by NextGen? Fly with a newly minted LSA pilot and make up your own mind. Varies with geographic area of course and the kind of airspace encountered. LSC priviledge benefit to holders of PPCs is great. They are experienced and now don't worry about medicals and they are satisfied presently.

"And is the sport rating or LSA s really bringing in new students who would not be there otherwise, or is it mainly diverting them from the normal private pilot training" Like anythying new you are going to get a few "lets try it out types" and then go on to the next fad (happened to Golf, hang gliding, and many winter sports. When they find it just the begining of a learning curve, they take off (pun intended).

This is just a start and modifications are being made to requirements of various certificates and student curiculum. The weight of 600 kg will remain to keep with ICAO standards. When the Cessna Skycatcher, the modified Piper SportCruiser joining the few a/c on line, thing might look up. Frankly most homebuilt a/c in which EAA volunteers etc. work on are better made than some imports, weather assembled here or there.

Is it worth it?  YES.  If for no other reason than it generated talk and interest that hasn't been seen in aviation in decades.  The numbers may be lower than expected, but what can't be counted by numbers of certificates issued is the interest its generated.  I've had several student who approached me with questions about the sport pilot cerft.  Some have started the sport pilot training, others decided on private pilot.  The point is, w/o sport pilot, many of my students wouldn't have even considered flying.

Also look at the number of true LSAs being built.  When was the last time you saw this kind of excitement generated by Cessna or Piper?  VLJs?  No way.   Not for the typical pilot.

Sport Pilot and LSA has succeeded if for no other reason than the buzz they created.

How is sport pilot working? From my perspective sport pilot and LSA is, although relatively new, growing and evolving.

Since I began instructing as a CFI-SP (airplane) in 2006 I have stayed happily busy and in the process have had 12 students obtain their sport pilot license. Ten of those pilots own airplanes. Did any of them buy a new factory built S-LSA(the certified factory built) No they did not. Any new airplane is going to be expensive and many are simply beyond the reach of a most pilots. But there are planes available that meet the definition of LSA and they can be purchased for a very reasonable price. As for me personally, I am a well seasoned pilot with a commercial rating but have taken my last flight physical, so sport pilot is there for me and it works just fine. I don't need more than two seats and I don't need to fly at night. As the baby boomer generation of pilots encounter those health issues which come with being on the grayside of the spectrum sport pilot will be there for them as well.

Hi Larry - I second the motion!   As to sport pilot - as the saying goes "It works for me!"

Mr. Silva-Sadder:

 With all due respect, I highly recommend that you read and understand the Sport Pilot and Light Sport rule as found here: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/sport_pilot/

 and also here: http://www.sportpilot.org.

Some of what you wrote is not true, inaccurate and misleading.

 First, there is no "Light Sport Certificate" only Sport Pilot Certificate.

 Second.  Are you an instructor? What data do you have to backup your claim that the cost of getting a Sport Pilot Certificate is not cheaper that a Private Pilot Certificate?  Even if the hourly rate of a LSA is higher than a Cessna 150, the fact that you rent a plane for 20 hours versus 40 hours makes a huge difference in favor of the LSA.  Take an hourly rate of $150.00 for the LSA x 20 hours= $3,000.00 for the Sport Pilot.  Now take a Cessna 150 with an hourly rate of $100.00 x 40 hours=$4,000.00 for the Private Pilot.  If you are a Private Pilot, did you get your license with 40 hours?

 Third, it is absolutely no true that the Sport Pilot Certificate is provided for a "category, class, make and model" Any Sport Pilot can fly any aircraft within a specific set.  For example a Sport Pilot certificated in the category of "Airplane" the class of "Land" and the set of "Tail Wheel" under 87 knots, he or she can fly ANY  make or model of aircraft that meets that same criteria.  To fly another category or class, the Sport Pilot only needs the training and an endorsement from an instructor.  Just like a Private Pilot can not get in and fly a tail wheel, complex aircraft or a sea plane without the proper rating.  In fact an endorsement is easier and cheaper to get than a rating...

 Fourth, Most of the people that I have trained are happy flying as a Sport Pilot.  I have only had one person that obtained the Sport Pilot with me and then when on to obtain his Private Pilot Certificate.  This person was given credit for his flight hours by his new instructor because the student clearly demonstrated he had the proper skills and knowledge.  His training was concentrated on the things that a Sport Pilot is not required to cover such as instruments, night and controlled airspace.   I don't think it is right or appropriate for you to say that “a "Sport Pilot" only CFI is avoided because is not credited to PPC" or that there is a problem to fly with a "newly minted LSA pilot"  I would challenge your flying skills with any of my Sport Pilots.

Carlos Duenas

Sport Pilot (Only) CFI

I will agree with you about 90% of  the way.

One difference is in opinion:  Although the 20 vs. 40 hour requirement does imply a huge savings, I would say that the ratio, in general, is 2:3.  That is, if the typical private pilot takes roughly 60 hours to get to the check ride, a typical Sport Pilot is going to be around 35-40 hours.  Again, that's my opinion.  It is a significant savings, nonetheless.

The other difference we have is more substantial.  Under the current legal opinion from the FAA, time received from a Subpart K instructor, such as yourself, does NOT count towards the private certificate.  Now, if I train a sport pilot, as a subpart H instructor, that time DOES count.  It all hinges around the word "authorized". I have confirmed this with AFS 610 - FAA legal basically says that a Sport CFI is not authorized to train private pilots ( I don't like it, either, and I believe that it goes against the spirit and intent of the reg, but the way they're structured, I can see Legal's point).  Interestingly enough, though, all the solo time does count...

Being Deaf, I think mostly in pictures.  The picture in my mind is people entering into "aviation" by entering the airport.  Most people go through a gate.  Some of us had to climb the fence - SODA, keeping track of Doctors that do not have audiometers, just working the fringes of legality...  Light Sport gives us a gate to go through.  Many people have proven that they are going to fly, no matter what the obstacle - paraplegic, no arms, Deaf...  Some have climbed the fence and gotten Private Pilots Certificates, others have flown lawn furniture with a snowmobile motor and some even a bed sheet with a lawnmower strapped to their back. 

Bob:

You are correct as far as instruction received from a Sport Pilot instructor, not counting towards the private pilot certificate according to current FAA regulations.  Nonetheless, let me explain what my observations have been with me and other instructors that I am in contact with:

1.  You are correct that the average time to get a private pilot certificate is about 60 hours.

2.  I disagree with the estimate of 35-40 hours for the typical Sport Pilot though.  My personal experience is more like 20-25.  Other instructors that I know have experienced about 25 hours.  Perhaps the fact that a lot of the students have had some prior ultralight experience that has helped decrease that time, even though my last student with no ultralight experience, got his check ride with 20 hours.  In an issue (Dec 2009) of Mentor Magazine, there is an article by Helen Woods that explains that at their flight school "Chesapeake Sport Pilot" with 16 seasonal flight instructors and about 60 primary students, their experience has been that a "15 hour (Sport Pilot) student who learned in an LSA has far superior stick-and-rudder skills than the 150-hour Cessna owner who comes to us for a flight review".

3.  The one student that I trained (in a Piper J-3 Cub) and then continued on to get his private pilot certificate in a Citabria 7CAB, I later spoke to his CFI-I who explained to me that he did not have to teach him how to take-off or land or how to do any kind of flight maneuvers, radio communication or cross country planning because he was ready for the examiner!  He spent the time on instruments, night flying, class D through B airspace and whatever else was not covered during the Sport Pilot training.  This student certainly obtained his private pilot certificate with the bare minimum required of "private pilot hours".  It helped the fact that he flew his Cub over 200 hours before he got his private.

We now have a Flight Design CTLS online and have lots of interest.  We're located in Iowa (www.IowaFlightTraining.com).  You can start in a non-LSA but can't solo or test in the non-LSA for a Sport Pilot license.  On the other hand, if the LSA has lights, you can continue to train and test for your Private.

Carlos -

I'm sure that the fact that folks that have prior experience flying aircraft will be able to consistently finish at 20 hours and get their certificates.  That's the balance of the time in my anecdotal 20 hours  As for the better "stick and rudder skills" I will attribute that to superior training rather than the aircraft - one flies as one is taught (I read the same article and like their model, which is similar to what I try to provide),  And yes, there are folks who, starting from scratch, will finish in the FAA minimums and do well, regardless of the certificate or rating sought.  That's why we talk in terms of averages, not absolutes. 

As a Sport Pilot I have been able to fly to the contiguous 48 states and 115 different airports.  Without the SP rule I would be spending my time on the ground wishing I could fly.  In 4 years as a Sport Pilot I have been more places than 90% of my Private Pilot friends.  Sport Pilot isn't for everyone but it works for me.

I too would likely not be flying if it wasn't for sport pilot.  Barrier to me was having sport pilot training and aircraft at a convenient location.