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Unprofession Behavior

Posted By:
Stuart Hoffman
IAC Member
2
Posts
0
#1 Posted: 2/13/2011 08:58:25

Recently, a flight instructor on our field told me to my face that he wished that I would fly my airplane into a mountain. This occurred after an airport authority meeting.  I am a member of our local airport authority, and he was displeased about our unanimous vote on a motion that indirectly affected him.  My concern is that this flight instructor has little control over his mouth and he  does not appear to embody the core principles of safe aviation.  He has dropped the f-bomb multiple times at public meeting trying to make his point.  My question is what to do about this. I cannot carry on an adult conversation with this person. Should I go to the FSDO with my concern?



Bill Greenwood
Warbirds of America MemberYoung Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
121
Posts
24
#2 Posted: 2/13/2011 21:35:52

What does the Gado have to do with someone being a jackass? His personality, good or bad is a separate matter from his being  aCFI, If you complain to the Gado it seems mostly that you just have sour grapes. There is at least one very well known famous and expert pilot who is know almost as much for his lack of quality as a decent person as for his flying.


Just because you don't like the guy or differ on some issue, (you didn't say what it is) doesn't make him an unsafe pilot.

Why not just ignore the guy, he is not worth your trouble to worry about him. And if he is truly a rat, his low reputation will probably get around locally.

If he is truly a dangerous pilot, ( is there really any hard evidence of this) it will likely come out in time. I'd just let anyone who asks that I would not fly with him.



Dick Anderson
Homebuilder or Craftsman
74
Posts
14
#3 Posted: 2/17/2011 20:09:47

Sorry, Bill, I have to disagree. There is a big difference between being a good pilot and being a good Certified Flight Instructor. Personality and professionalism ( or the lack of same) are as important to me in choosing an instructor as his (or her) piloting ability. A "jackass" usually does not have the ability to properly teach students- no matter what the subject- but especially one as potentially hazardous as flying. It sounds like this person is disruptive and confrontational in a business and public environment. Why should the airport authority have to or want to provide a platform for such a person? Granted, we don't know the issues involved or the extent of the business relationship between the board and this CFI, but based on what's been posted, it looks like nothing but trouble ahead.



Dick Anderson
Jerry Rosie
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
482
Posts
101
#4 Posted: 2/18/2011 10:13:58

The guy is undoubtedly a jerk, but being a jerk is not grounds for legal action.  Being a jerk is not conducive to being a good CFI, but again, unless he is patently dangerous, not grounds for action.  The market place will be the judge - a jerk as a CFI will not be able to retain many students.  It is hard to be a CFI without students.  My advice - wait, watch and listen - then laugh up your sleeve when justice prevails....

 

 



Cheers, Jerry NC22375 out of 07N
Andrew Ovans
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerAirVenture Volunteer
133
Posts
39
#5 Posted: 2/18/2011 14:26:15

Take the high road and let him ruin his own career.

FSDO may or may not find anything and you might not be taken serious when you have a legitimate concern.



www.tailwindflightcenter.com Flightline Aeronautics LLC
Bill Greenwood
Warbirds of America MemberYoung Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
121
Posts
24
#6 Posted: 2/19/2011 14:39:01

Dick, the question was about reporting him to the FSDO, not whether a CFI should be a nice guy or have a good personality.

Do you think you could get another lawyer, or CPA, or plumber disbarred just because he was not a nice guy and you had a persoanal dispute?

We don't even know what the dispute is over, and we only can assume which side is in the right.

In the  past there have been cases where an FBO or full shop would try to get a small repair A&P kicked off the airport. The small guy may do just as good or better work in his hangar or out of his car trunk( Matt G does it out of his motorcycle trailer) and the big shop sees it as unfair competition, because the independent has less overhead cost.

When you don't know what a dispute is about, it is most likely to come down to plain old money, more so than safety.


Was the pilot an unsafe pilot or instructor before he made the nasty comment to our guy. If so, why didn't someone report him then? Is it only after the comment? I don't think there is any FAR that deals wth nasty comments, if you can find one let me know.

If a jackass is given enough rope he may hang himself , just  as finally as to Bob Knight who knows all about basketball, but is still a bum. 



Dick Anderson
Homebuilder or Craftsman
74
Posts
14
#7 Posted: 2/19/2011 22:41:06

Stuart stated that this CFI used multiple f-bombs in a public meeting and that he "cannot have an adult conversation with him". Whatever the issue- we do not know- Stuart feels it only indirectly affected him- again we do not know- it obviously is affecting this CFI's behavior in a very negative way. The comment that he would like to see Stuart fly his plane into a mountain- after a unanimous vote by the airport authority- tells me this was more than a personal dispute between the two, but that the CFI has made it personal. At this point, it really doesn't matter which side is "right", the airport board voted unanimously on the issue. So, is Stuart merely concerned that this person's behavior will continue to negatively affect the business of the airport or does he now feel personally threatened and concerned for his safety? That will no doubt govern his future actions, and as I said earlier, there is likely to be more trouble ahead. Hopefully, he will post again and clarify some of the questions and issues that we have expressed. I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement, but then I lived for years in Illinois...



Dick Anderson
Ross Van Horn
1
Post
4
#8 Posted: 2/24/2011 18:55:37

To answer some of the questions that some of you may have, I'm the "jerk" who apparently can't control his mouth.  Let's start at the beginning.  I worked as a contract flight instructor for a flight school for five years and have taught from the student level to the ATP level in both VFR/IFR single/multi-engine.  I have a 100% checkride pass rate with my students of all ages.  I've probably taught somewhere around 100-150 students over the years.  Basically I'm darn good at what I do for only 24 yrs of age.  I've accumulated some 3,500 hrs. ATP SEL MEL Type CE-500 CFII MEI Advanced Ground Instructor.  Since Dec. I have picked up a lot of contract work in a Navajo, Citation 550, and Citation 525.  I enjoy teaching and will continue to do what I love.  So I guess for being a person who swears in public I sure am ruining my career.

The airport I was working at is operated be an airport authority(failure from day one) and on Dec 31, 2010 the authority would not renew the lease to the flight school for "personal reasons."  When this occurred most of my income ceased because at that time most of what I was doing was teaching.  So therefore, the decision by the authority to not renew the flight school lease did in fact directly affect me in a serious way.  It would be like your boss at work saying "you're fired" and you're out of a job.  This is point number one. 

At the meeting that this motion was made Stuart cornered me and started asking some question about my insurance or some matter.  At this point I was steaming.  I responded by stating "I hope you fly your f****** SIMULATOR into a mountain."  Stuart was flying a fake computer game to stay proficient in IMC.  End of discussion.  Stuart took offense by it and hasn't forgotten it since.

I will admit that I can't control my mouth, but that doesn't make me a bad person.  I don't swear around my students or other clients.  When the heat is on I tend to have "adult words to be said."  If an adult can't have an adult conversation with someone swearing than maybe that person hasn't matured yet.  Just because I swear in a public meeting doesn't make me an unsafe pilot and the FAA can not and will not do anything regarding profanity in aviation. 

In conclusion, five years ago when I got my first job as an instructor my first student I ever taught was Stuart.  At one time he was a very nice gentleman to converse with.  I still respect the man but I feel his powers as an authority member have gone to his head and at the meetings he appears to be very arrogant and snotty to the other pilots.  With that being said, every person has a dark side to them and at some point someone will see it.

Ross A. Van Horn

 



Bill Greenwood
Warbirds of America MemberYoung Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
121
Posts
24
#9 Posted: 2/24/2011 23:02:34

Ross, thanks  for coming out and giving your side.

I had a feeling that despite what Stuart wrote about safety , that this is really about money. Disputes usually are. Are they refusing to renew the lease for the school you work at because they have someone else they want to give it too? They may have that right.

As for the profanity; my advice is to really try to work on leaving it out of your conversation

You don't need it, it makes you look bad, and you can take a very strong position for yourself without it, when need be.

What airport are you at?



Jerry Rosie
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
482
Posts
101
#10 Posted: 2/25/2011 10:12:23

Ross, I originally sided with the original poster, not because of your use of profanity, but because of your wish, as he stated, that he "fly his plane into a mountain".  That, as reported, was a bit 'over the top'.  If you meant his computer into a mountain, it takes a bit of the sting out of it, but still leaves an 'unseemly' hue to the discussion.  I did think he was a bit 'overheated' when considering asking for FAA action....

 

 



Cheers, Jerry NC22375 out of 07N
Stuart Hoffman
IAC Member
2
Posts
0
#11 Posted: 2/27/2011 12:06:29

To all,

I appreciate the posts and the advise. Taking the high road was always my plan.  As far as the CFI's post, I never heard a "simulator" ever mentioned in our conversation.  If that's what this CFI had in mind, he certainly didn't say it, I can't read minds, and I don't own a simulator.  I thought that the "piece of crap that you fly" mentioned by the CFI in our conversation that day either referred to my Decathlon or C150.  This particular CFI has openly trashed our club's 150 as not worth flying or intructing in because it doesn't climb fast as his FBO's 172 and for various other dubious reasons. The C150 has about 12 hours on the engine after a complete overhaul.

Obviously, there's more to this story, but this is not the proper forum.  However, if this CFI really wants to know why the Authority didn't renew the FBO's lease, he should ask the FBO.  As an independent contractor to the FBO, this CFI can certainly continue teaching on our field in any number of aircraft.  He is currently based at an airport about 7 miles south of us: if you blink enroute, you're in each other's traffic pattern.  I've traveled alot farther to fly with a good instructor.

More importantly, I hope that something about civility in public and in aviation was learned.