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STAYING CURRENT

Posted By:
Joe Biviano
4
Posts
1
#1 Posted: 6/5/2011 22:09:40

In the May issue of Sport Aviation, Mr. Mcclellan wrote an article "How to Stay Current"  I read this, and just exploded at his comment regarding stalls.  Mr. Mcclellan is professing stalls are a waste of time .  To quote "I think practicing stall recovery is among the biggest wastes of pilot time"  I have not sure how many pilots/students his has taught or advised but this is an example of someone who thinks he has a bunch of time and experience can show off his mouth about flight safety.   Stalls in any aircraft we fly is very important, the pilot needs to know how their aircraft feel as it approaching a stall and how it stalls and how to recover.   I sincerely hope NO ONE takes Mr. Mcclellan's position on stalls seriously.  Would want to fly with a homebuilder who does not practice stalls??  WHAT ARE YOUR COMMENTS ?????



Jerry Rosie
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
482
Posts
101
#2 Posted: 6/6/2011 07:56:44

Stalls are fun.  That's enough reason to practice them....

 



Cheers, Jerry NC22375 out of 07N
Bill Greenwood
Warbirds of America MemberYoung Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
121
Posts
24
#3 Posted: 6/6/2011 23:20:20

A good reason to practice stalls is to be more aware of the situations and flight points where a stall is more likely to happen and perhaps most important to recognize the warning signs that a stall is imminent. Many planes may show a decreasing response to controls or a slushy feeling, and as well an aerodyanamic buffeting. Some planes have a warning horn or warning light, but many don't ,especially some great vintage ones.

If you recognize the stall you can prevent it or at least begin recovery at the first of the stall.



Peter Weiskopf
Warbirds of America MemberHomebuilder or Craftsman
22
Posts
4
#4 Posted: 6/9/2011 08:26:13 Modified: 6/9/2011 10:09:09

Yay, Bill - You nailed it.

When I provide J-3 Cub tailwheel transition training, I have the student do the following:

Set low cruise in C-85, Normal cruise in A-65

Head out of the cockpit. No watching the airspeed gauge. Look at the clouds or sky.

Try to find the point where the A/C is on the verge of stalling. Hold this as best they can. Milk it even more.

Notice the feel of the controls, get used to what the A/C feels like in the area of incipient stall. If it takes a large amount of stick and rudder just to keep the bird on an even keel, you are there.

Finally, stall the A/C on your command. This is done from an easy entry and a hard entry.

I can agree with all parties, going out to the practice area; and stalling the A/C has limited benefits. All instructors are keenly aware that the teaching objective is really stall awareness and avoidance. What to do when the stall occurs is a required skill. But, I try to get a student to develop a feel for the A/C and be aware when the A/C says it is not happy.

I did not read the original article, but if the point is to suggest that going out to the practice area to STALL & RECOVER is wasted training time --- I see the point. As an instructor I would rather a person become proficient at stall awareness and avoidance. In some airplanes the recovery is not pretty and sometimes not possible from pattern altitude.

 

 

 

 



Jerry Rosie
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
482
Posts
101
#5 Posted: 6/9/2011 14:09:21

Yo Peter -

That sounds like a great exercose.  I'm gonna try it  the next time I'm in the practice area.... Thanks.

 



Cheers, Jerry NC22375 out of 07N
Brad Kramer
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
13
Posts
3
#6 Posted: 6/10/2011 09:20:08

Recent stall-related fatal accidents...

 

Air France - 228 people dead

Colgan Air Buffalo NY - 50 people dead

 

Both were preventable if the pilots recognized the impending stall and probably recoverable if they'd reacted properly and quickly.

 

We're turning out too many new pilots who are afraid of stalls and have never even experienced a spin, let alone recover from one.

 

Let's have more training and practice in both.



Earl Downs
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
6
Posts
2
#7 Posted: 6/10/2011 12:30:25

 The FAA/CAA has had its “ups-and-downs” about teachingstalls. I’ve been training students for over 50 years and have seen the test standards go from spin demonstration to demonstrating complete stalls to only demonstrating approach to stalls, and now back to full stalls. I tell my students that stalls are taught for three reasons; 1. How to recognize and avoid a stall, 2. How to recover from a stall, 3. It is a precision maneuver that you will be tested on. However, I do not think the FAA testing standard presents a realistic stallsituation. Therefore, I teach other variations of stall situations such as engine failure shortly after takeoff and accelerated stalls in turns. 

Air France 228 does bring up some interesting questions. During my days in the flight training department at TWA we had specific procedure for aircraft control with a loss of the pitot static system. However, that was 20 years ago and maybe it is no longer felt necessary to teach that kind of stuff on modern computer operated airliners.      



Felix Geraets
3
Posts
3
#8 Posted: 6/10/2011 15:56:56

As an ex P51 pilot,i can tell you that stall practice should be mandatory !

After you have seen a P51 stall on final , and another in a high speed stall

turning from base to final,you have seen enough.

Stalls  should be mandatory training !



Robert Dingley
Homebuilder or Craftsman
161
Posts
38
#9 Posted: 6/19/2011 19:18:27
Jerry Rosie wrote:

 

Stalls are fun.  That's enough reason to practice them....

 

 

Right on Jerry! Of course, your old "Air-knocker" was built long before stall warning horns were even thought of. You and folks who fly similar aircraft better have lots of practice and a good feel for their bird.

On the other hand, Mac makes a good point. The technicaly advanced aircraft of the 21st century, that he is most familiar with have layers of warning and protection built in. You have to try hard to stall one of those.

We are in a game where "one size does not fit all."

Bob