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Sigh..... LODA Blues

Posted By:
Jim Heffelfinger
Homebuilder or Craftsman
256
Posts
43
#1 Posted: 9/16/2010 23:56:16

FAA's ruling on experimental LODA

What will it do for the professional operators who have been waiting - sitting on their former trainers


http://www.eaa.org/news/2010/2010-09-16_lodas.asp





William Czygan
Homebuilder or Craftsman
9
Posts
5
#2 Posted: 9/22/2010 16:43:37

Nothing!

I talked to AFS800 and will be getting the skinny from them in the next few
days. Then I called and talked to Rich at AFS610. I now know that the FAA has at
least 2 departments with individual people of differing opinions about what we
should be allowed to do, and maybe differing policies as well. And I believe the
FAA is playing games with the EAA and their governmental affairs people, and by
extension, all of us. Rich said that the EAA only asked for UL pilot training to
be allowed by this LODA. He said "That's what they asked for, and that's what
they gave us". He then said that AFS800 wrote the guidance. If you look at the
guidance, AFS800 has control, but consults with AFS600 on Sport Pilot
provisions.
He also said that Experimental aircraft were never used for initial flight
training and the FAA doesn't want to allow that because they have no way to make
sure they're safe. He suggested that maybe there should be more regulation to
make that possible. Now I hope I am characterizing it correctly, but I felt one
of the people in this conversation was being coy....
So I asked if this meant the agency wanted that part of the sport to just die
until suitable SLSA's were available.......guess I was being a little coy
myself.
Result? This LODA seems to promise much, but gives little or nothing. If you
can find a morsel in it to sustain you, please do.

Bill



James Leon
AirVenture Volunteer
2
Posts
1
#3 Posted: 9/24/2010 12:18:17

 In Bill's reply he stated that Rich from 610 said: "He also said that Experimental aircraft were never used for initial flight
training and the FAA doesn't want to allow that because they have no way to make sure they're safe."

That statement is correct but he is forgetting that there were hundreds of exempted ultralights that were allowed for training. Just because the manufacturers wanted to control the Light Sport program is no reason for the FAA to say these existing trainers are now "not safe for flight training and they have no way to make sure they are safe. This is telling me that the FAA has no trust in their DAR's that inspected these experimental aircraft and issued it an N number. For the FAA to say that we could continue to use these unsafe aircraft until a certain date,  make's no sence at all. Why would the FAA allow me to use an aircraft that they didn't know was safe? The FAA has not idea how safe the factory-built aircraft are until someone dies. The standards for quality is in the hands of the money hungry manufacturers.

For a manufacturer to offer a slow tube and fabric airplane, or a 50 mph weight shift, or a 30 mpf powered parachute for almost twice the money as they were sold before Light Sport rules only show the greed in the industry. To look at some of the quality that comes out of some of the companies is a joke, where are the FAA inspectors ( oh, that's right they now trust their DAR's.)

We all know these slower flying aircraft have no business in the Light Sport Program. If these manufactures want to build $150,000 aircraft for the rich and famous, just fine. But why take away affordable flying from the not so rich and famous in the slower aircraft.

To tell me, as an instructor in the slower aircraft, that I need to come up with thousands and thousands of dollars because someone ( I have no idea who this) now feels that my aircraft I have been using for flight training is now unsafe. If anyone at all really cared about the sport and not the money, this LODA could be approved in the way it was intended with an inspection from the MIDO, FSDO or the dumb DAR.

James M. Leon ( dumb DAR )

 

 

 

 He suggested that maybe there should be more regulation to
make that possible. Now I hope I am characterizing it correctly, but I felt one
of the people in this conversation was being coy....
So I asked if this meant the agency wanted that part of the sport to just die
until suitable SLSA's were available.......guess I was being a little coy
myself.
Result? This LODA seems to promise much, but gives little or nothing. If you
can find a morsel in it to sustain you, please do.



Rob Stapleton
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
9
Posts
3
#4 Posted: 9/26/2010 14:20:01 Modified: 9/26/2010 14:28:49

If you want to know how we here in Alaska feel about how useless the LODA is read:


http://www.examiner.com/aviation-community-in-anchorage/sport-pilot-stalled-alaska-over-bureaucracy

http://www.examiner.com/aviation-community-in-anchorage/the-safety-danger-limitations-and-costs-of-sport-pilot

http://www.examiner.com/aviation-community-in-anchorage/the-death-of-an-aviation-activity

We here in Alaska had no support from the FAA, no WSC or PPC DPEs, few instructors and those who did want to become instructors had to go outside of the state at their expense to get their authorization. Now those of left behind that were thinking of getting into instructing are left with two altenatives, go flying for fun and forget about instructing, or quit flying these former ultralights and fly $100,000+ aircraft. 

This defeats the purpose of flying for fun....remember Sport Pilot, flying for fun in affordable aircraft.....

The way that I understand the LODA is that it will only be allowed by the FAA for ELSA aircraft for those instructors who were instructing in aircraft with an empty weight of 500 Lbs or less and a Vh of 87 knots before Jan. 31, 2010, the dual or PIC time will not count toward any rating or license other than Sport PIlot and can't be used for any license other than a Sport Pilot license or for two place training for Part 103 interested pilots.

I am not trying to thwart this due to the work that EAA and others put into the SP rule but is this what was proposed by the groups asking for an extension of the training authorization for ELSAs? 

If so you wasted your time and our membership money.

Rob Stapleton

Anchorage, AK




 



Dan Grunloh
Homebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
66
Posts
25
#5 Posted: 9/27/2010 11:57:02

Thanks Bill for your efforts.

Rich said that the EAA only asked for UL pilot training to be allowed by this LODA. He said "That's what they asked for, and that's what they gave us".

To bad you don't have that conversation recorded.  Some folks at the FAA are playing games it seems.  Any excuse to get the caller off  the phone?  According to EAA government specialist David Oord, the EAA has been asking that instructors flying grandfathered ELSA trainers be allowed to "continue what they have been doing".  That is compensated UL training and primary training for Sport pilot especially for the the under 87 knots planes.  David says the EAA has been asking for this at least 3 years at annual winter meetings with the FAA.  Perhaps RIch didn't attend those meetings.

Read the article in the latest issue of LIght Plane World and then click on the link for the David Oord interview with Roy Beisswenger on Powered Sport Flying Radio.  Go to about the 10 minute mark and listen.

 

Light Plane World -September 2010