EAAAirVenture OshkoshShopJoin
1  2  Next Page >

Which Airplane Do I Want ?

Posted By:
Leon Adelstone
16
Posts
0
#1 Posted: 9/5/2009 10:04:04

Which airpane do I want ?

With all the wisdom and experience available through the EAA members, I should receive several recommendtions.

I'm looking for a safe airplane that will be (relaively) inexpensive to keep and fly.  I want to avoid the need to rent a hangar, and keep this stored at home, in my 2 car garage, or, if necessary, I'll build a mini-hangar in my yard.

I'm looking for something that will carrry the pilot and one passenger...preferably side by side.  Preferably tricycle gear.  Can be flown as an LSA.  Can be trailered to the runway and placed in a flying configuraion within 15 minutes or less; - Preferably uses a small 4 stroke engine; consumes 4 gal / hr or less of auto gas; ideally can take off over trees in a short  distance.   Since this will be a "Toy"; airspeed is not very important.  Useful load should be Fuel + 400 lbs.  Should accomodate a Pilot at least 5' 10" tall and 190 lbs.

If necessary, I'll consider sacrificing the requirement for a tricycle gear.  But my wife prefers to avoid taildraggers, if possible.



Leon Adelstone
16
Posts
0
#2 Posted: 9/5/2009 10:15:21

Follow-up.  ( Sorry...I don't know how to edit my original post. )

Oh, Yeah...One "little detail" I forgot to mention.  Please disregard those $100K + SLSA airplanes.  I'm looking for something I can buy used, completely built and flying, for something (hopefully) in he $12-20K range.



Brad Strand
Homebuilder or Craftsman
66
Posts
27
#3 Posted: 9/5/2009 18:53:02

Let me know when you find this airplane and I'll buy one too!



David Darnell
61
Posts
18
#4 Posted: 9/6/2009 09:50:12

  Good luck with this search! Just a few thoughts on your requirements.....

IMO folding wings are not a good idea. Rather like having retractable wheels, you will have a time where you forget a step- which is bad enough with a retractable, but a disaster with the wings!  And I'd constantly be wondering "did I attach ........"

I'd look for something along the lines of a Zenith 701. For your price point- probably would have to buy someones project. Another possibility- look at the ad in Barnstormers for the Kestrel Hawk.

Thats my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it!



Ray Toews
Homebuilder or Craftsman
16
Posts
4
#5 Posted: 9/6/2009 14:34:27

Don't let the naysayers discourage you, there are lots of two seaters out there for $20k.

There was a Model 1 Kitfox in flying condition sold for around $10k on ebay a while ago.

Older kitfoxes or avids are out there, don't have all the fancy of newer $100k machines but very good performers.

If you are not stuck on side by side you can often find Chinooks or Challengers for that price, they are good solid performers and have been around for a long time.

If you keep an ear down there will be some Sonex's out soon judging by the number being built.

What you are looking for is going to take a little work to keep flying though, these airplanes are a bit more "fragile" than your spamcan Cessna's and Cherokee's, but the performance is FAR superior. 

These new  $100k LSA machines are for the guy who is afraid of going to the doctor and knows he has to give up his Bonanza.

Us ordinary working guys can fly and it doesn't need to cost more than a Harley or Polaris.

 

IMHO

Ray



James R Thomas
Homebuilder or Craftsman
48
Posts
10
#6 Posted: 9/8/2009 13:37:00

Hey Leon, You just described the Kitfox. All models have folding wings, setup takes just a few minutes. Lots of people do what you said, store their plane in their garage and trailer to the airport. Models 4 through 7's usually have Rotax 912's that use auto gas at 3 to 5 gallons per hour. These planes land slow, take off short and have a decent cruise. Think of them as downsized Supercubs. There're among the best buys on the used market. Models 1 through 3 are good too but are usually 2 stroke powered but they can be had for a lot less cash. The 2 strokes Rotax's are fine if you maintain them. Good luck with your search.  James Thomas



Joel Kesler
Homebuilder or Craftsman
5
Posts
0
#7 Posted: 9/17/2009 20:23:55

Check out the Just Aircraft Highlander kinda like kitfox but a lot better. 80 to 100 ft takeoff 1500 fpm climb with around 700lb payload and the largest baggage area in the Lsa industery. kit starts at 18,000. Basic day vfr with rtotax around 50,000 in the 30's with vw based. Google just aircraft ,and then checkout u tube highlander aircraft and see for yourself  Jak



Steve Silsby
Young Eagles Pilot or Volunteer
41
Posts
11
#8 Posted: 9/17/2009 22:10:12

12-20k for an already built Kitfox? No way. Especially with a Rotax 912 or 914 for power. Remember that the kit prices quoted DO NOT include the engine! Once someone builds an aircraft, adds the engine, fills out thepnel with instruments and radio, completes the test-flight process and gets final FAA sign-off, he has added many thousands ( ten? twenty? more?) of dollars beyond the kit cost invested. And don't forget the many hundreds to several thousand hours of his labor in it. He isn't givng THAT up cheap either. The July Trade-A-Plane had listings for completed Zenith aircraft ranging from $37,000 to $45,000 -- not at all out of line.

Perhaps if YOU build one of the basic kits (Zenair, Kitfox, RANS, etc.) and used a Raven 1300 auto engine conversion, you could come in at the higher end of that range. 

If you bend on your specs a bit (folding wings, gross weight, and hanger sharing or a tiedown) the Cessna 140 or Piper Colt types will meet your specs and budget.

Keep looking, comparing, and considering options. You CAN find a way.

 



CAVU to you! - - Steve
James R Thomas
Homebuilder or Craftsman
48
Posts
10
#9 Posted: 9/18/2009 09:23:34

Hey again Leon, Steve's right about 912 powered Kitfoxes. They run 25k and up for models 4 through 7's. But there are plenty of 582 powered model 2's and 3's. Check out Barnstormers. A friend and neighbor recently put his 582 model 2 up for $12,500. I found one about 3 years ago, a new, never flown but finished model 4 with 582 for $12'000. It was sold before I could get there. I later found a partially completed model 4 Speedster with a new 912 and  Grove gear and I'll have well under 30k invested when finished. Look around and you will find a reasonably price Kitfox. What people ask and what they'll take and 2 different things. Just be patient. Again 582 powered Kitfoxes are plentiful in your price range but for a for an extra 10k you'll get a lot more airplane and with a 912 powered model 4. Hang in there. James Thomas



James R Thomas
Homebuilder or Craftsman
48
Posts
10
#10 Posted: 9/18/2009 10:09:19

2 more things Leon, There are not many model 2's or 3's on Barnstormers. Just keep watching. Join the Matronics kitfox site at www.teamkitfox.com and read and ask questions. Everyone is very helpful. There have been over 4500 Kitfoxes sold so there's no shortage of airplanes and information.  Tell them what you're looking for and they'll help you.  James Thomas



Kent Misegades
Young Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or CraftsmanAirVenture Volunteer
24
Posts
7
#11 Posted: 9/18/2009 19:52:19

Your requirement for folding/removable wings will restrict your choices considerably as such planes are quite rare in the US.  If you really need this, look at European designs that tend to feature folding wings. Otherwise, a clean Piper Tri-Pacer or early C-150 can be found for under $20K that should suit your needs, but they'll have somewhat higher fuel consumption.  If you plan only to fly 50-75 hours/year, the fuel consumption issue isn't all that important anyway.   If you can convince your wife to fly a real airplane (one with the 3rd wheel on the correct end, the tail) then you will increase your options considerably.  But folding wing option will be tough.  You might be better off looking harder for a hangar somewhere, maybe sharing one. You'll increase your options and save more than you'll have to pay for the folding wing and trailer option.   Fly off of grass and you may find plenty of airfields that have hangar options.  Good luck!



kmisegades
Barney Reed
1
Post
0
#12 Posted: 9/20/2009 15:11:14

HI leon,

              Before you make you final decision on what you should build, I suggest that you go to the ZENITH home page and read everything concerning the Zenith CH750.   CH750 is a STOL design and should be  simple to build.  I completed the RV-4 and am now thinking seriously about the CH750 as my next project. It has many advantages, short fields, economical fuel wise and many other interesting features.  Read about it and think seriously about it after compairing it with other kit's.

Cheers, Barney



Leon Adelstone
16
Posts
0
#13 Posted: 9/21/2009 13:37:32

Hi guys.  Thanx for the input so far.

Just a reminder as to a couple of parameters.

1.    Tricycle gear.

2     4 stroke engine

3      Build ?  BUILD???  Believe me...no one should want to flay an airplane that I built.   loopy



James R Thomas
Homebuilder or Craftsman
48
Posts
10
#14 Posted: 9/21/2009 22:01:17

One or the other of your requirements will have to go, either the 4 stroke engine or your budget. There may be an Avid out there for under 20k with a VW or a subaru but it's doubtful. The vast majority are taildraggers. The same goes for early Kitfoxes. Maybe an N3 Pup with a VW. I give up.  James Thomas



Alice Cornwell
65
Posts
29
#15 Posted: 9/21/2009 22:24:52

You aren't making it easy for us Leon!   I was thinking you might just sneak a Jabiru SP or SK under your budget but the cheapest ones I can find on the internet are in the low 20s.  If it must be 4 stroke and nosewheel, would you compromise on the folding wings and/or the side/by side?



Robert Zerull
5
Posts
10
#16 Posted: 9/25/2009 09:59:02

Leon:

 

I was doing exactly as you are doing last year, the only difference---I do have a hangar.  I ended up with an Interplane Skyboy.  Mine has a 100 hp 2 cycle, but most are available with a Rotax 912.  The wings are removable, but I never have to do it, it cruises at 90 mph, stalls at 40 mph, burns gas at 4.5 gph, climbs at 1000 ft/mn and caries about 420 lbs. with a full 15 gallon fuel tank.  It is very easy to fly and I am having a great time with mine.  You can go to you tube, search "flying the interplane skyboy" and see me and my skyboy in action.  Good luck with your search.

 

Bob



L8r, Bob
Robert Deans
Homebuilder or Craftsman
5
Posts
0
#17 Posted: 9/25/2009 18:09:06

Hello have you thaught about an ercoupe. I know it does not have folding wings but it does meet all of your other requirements, and is quite easy to fly. I saw a reply that you described a kitfox and that plane has an excellent reputation.



Lin Light
Homebuilder or Craftsman
8
Posts
0
#18 Posted: 10/29/2009 19:53:32

Look at the Avid Air. It has folding wings.

 

Lin

 



Leon Adelstone
16
Posts
0
#19 Posted: 11/7/2009 10:49:05

Thanx, Robert,  That will be an active consideration.



Wayne Eleazer
Vintage Aircraft Association MemberYoung Eagles Pilot or VolunteerHomebuilder or Craftsman
4
Posts
0
#20 Posted: 1/30/2010 11:10:09

They have made folding wing mods for the Ercoupe.  I would not want to try that on mine, but it has been used.   An Ercoupe with 85HP and a climb prop will surprise you at how short a runway it can use and it will still cruise at over 100 mph burning about 4.5 gph of auto fuel.

 I saw a couple of really good deals on Ercoupe projects sell on Ebay recently.  Wish I had room to store the stuff - I would have bought it myself.  A very nice Ercoupe project went for about $13K.  Most all the parts needed to build TWO Ercoupes with a lot of stuff left over went for about $3700!  

Good luck!

Wayne



1  2  Next Page >